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How do you avoid being pretentious when you're intelligent, Charlie and Jimmy's school uniforms, when to look for a new job, and all the news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon.

 Intro (00:00)

Hank: Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

Charlie: Or as we like to call it, Dear Charlie.

Jimmy: And Jimmy.

Charlie: And Hank.

Hank: This is the weekly podcast where I, Hank Green, and usually John Green, but this week, Charlie McDonnell and Jimmy Hill answer your questions, give you dubious advice, and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. But first, does Jimmy have a poem for us?

Jimmy: Oh yeah, Hank, I've got a poem alright. Well, we're going to split it.

Charlie: Yeah, we're gonna do a line each.

Hank: Oh.

Jimmy: We're gonna read it together.

Charlie: Do you wanna start, Jimmy?

Jimmy: "Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids
Charlie: In fact it's cold as hell
Jimmy: And there's no one there to raise them if you did
Charlie: And all this science I don't understand
Jimmy: It's just my job five days a week
Charlie: A rocket man, a rocket man
Jimmy: And I think it's gonna be a long, long time"

Hank: Thanks for that, that lovely poem.

Jimmy: The beautiful lyrics of Bernie Taupin there.

Hank: He is very prolific.

Jimmy: What is this guy building rockets saying he doesn't know anything about science for? Surely that's kind of a fundamental thing on your CV if your job is to create spacecrafts.

Hank: Well I don't think his job is to create spacecraft. I think his job is just to sit in the spacecraft but it has always seemed kind of odd to me that it's just his job five days a week and now they're sending him to Mars, question mark? Because that's gonna take a lot... You can't, like, come home on the weekends.

Charlie: You stole my joke, that's what I was gonna say.

Jimmy: Oh you... Sorry Charlie.

Charlie: I had that one ready, Hank.

Jimmy: You paused for so long. I thought somebody needs to say something. I resorted to stealing a joke for the sake of an awkward silence.

Hank: Oh, well there's nothing quite as hilarious as an awkward silence so let's just have one of those.

Charlie: Oh dear. No, I was like "That's the awkward silence that we'll edit out, there it is. Can't wait to see that go." (All laugh)

Hank: Uh, so for everybody who doesn't know, Charlie and Jimmy have both been making YouTube videos for a long time. When did you guys start, each?

Jimmy: Oh wow. I started back in 2007, I think, late 2007.

Charlie: Yeah same. Well I was April 2007, I think that was me.

Hank: Alright. I was January 2007 so we're all pretty old school here. And you guys, we are now, all three of us, working together on a show but you are the hosts of it, I'm only very behind the scenes, behind the behind the scenes, called Cereal Time which happens every morning. What's up with Cereal Time? Are you at the Cereal Time studios now?

Jimmy: We are, absolutely.

Charlie: We are. We're recording with the very fancy microphones we use on Cereal Time.

Jimmy: And just to say, Hank, you are always with us in spirit. You know, you might not be with us in the studio but you're constantly in our minds and in our hearts whenever we record.

Charlie: We actually, we have a picture of you just above the lens of the camera so that we can always look at you and be reminded where the money came from. (Jimmy and Charlie laugh)

Hank: That's not a real thing is it?

Charlie: No, but we might do that now, now that I've said it.

Hank: OK, do it now. I want... If, I'm gonna come to England sometime in the next year and I'm gonna be on Cereal Time and I want to see myself above the camera lens.

Charlie: OK. We can do that.

Jimmy: OK, sure. We'll get, like, a huge six foot oil painting commissioned with eyes that follow you around the room. Yeah. But no, yeah, Cereal Time's great. So it's a daily morning show, sort of waking up YouTube like a fun alarm clock.

Hank: Waking up the British YouTube because in America it comes out at, like, midnight and I'm like "Oh, there it is. Morning in England."

Jimmy: Yeah. Every episode we do we get at least five or six comments on the time zone. Even now, even though we've been doing it, like, two months.

Hank: Yeah, it's like "It's not morning! Shut up you guys!" (Jimmy and Charlie laugh)

Charlie: They'll get it eventually, it's fine.

Hank: Yeah. Well actually, I am tempted to leave that comment and I have seen that comment and also have, and also know that this is a thing that happens every single video. And yet, when I see an episode of Cereal Time come online and you Tweet, "Good morning, everyone" and I'm about to go to bed, I am tempted to leave that comment. It's just a thing that people wanna do, it's just how we operate.

Charlie: I did see you leave a comment on one of the recent Cereal Times saying "Good morning", and I've only, it's only just struck me that that must have been a very hard thing for you to have done, so good job.

Hank: Well, everyone else was saying it.

Charlie: Yeah. My mum always says it, every single episode, she leaves a comment saying good morning. 

Jimmy: Ohh, I love that. 

Hank: Alright, well, I'm loving Cereal Time, it's really fun, and hilarious and weird and cute, so good job, guys, and now we're gonna ask some questions, you guys wanna answer some questions?

Jimmy: Oh yeah!

Charlie: I wasn't told about this.

Jimmy: Come on.

Hank: You haven't been told about it?

Charlie: No, what are we doing? I thought we were just doing a little ad for Cereal Time and that was the whole thing. We've gotta answer questions? No, I'm ready, it's fine. Just trying to inject some of that old comedy.

Jimmy: Charlie refuses to answer questions, it's one of his rules, you can't make eye contact with Charlie, you can't ask Charlie a question, he's like the Queen. You also have to curtsy when you meet him for the first time. 

Hank: Well, luckily, I did that, but just because I was super feeling awkward. 

Jimmy: There's nothing worse than an awkward curtsy, is there? Is there? (Hank laughs) It's an awkward movement at the best of times.

Charlie: I appreciated it all the same. Did you actually curtsy when we met? I can't remember.

Hank: No, I made that up. But I mean, it's possible, I do sometimes curtsy, I think that it's kind of awesome. I like the curtsy as an introduction, I think that it is an interesting body movement that is some... It is somewhat complicated in its control of all of your body parts, and so I find it to be more visually pleasing than a bow or a handshake.

Jimmy: Yeah, do you think that's where it evolved from? Do you think it's just essentially a fancy bow? I'd be quite interested to hear the history of the curtsy.

Hank: Well, we will...

Jimmy: Who started that, who's the first person to do a curtsy?

Hank: We're gonna, we're gonna get people telling us about that on Twitter, I do not doubt it.

Jimmy: Oh, I cannot wait. I cannot wait.

Hank: It's a, it's @coollike and @hi_jimmy and @hankgreen, so let us know what's the history of the curtsy.

 Question 1 (6:19)

Charlie: Shall I do the first question?

Hank: Yeah, yeah, do the first question, and put your name first, because that's how it works.

Charlie: Hayley asks, "Dear Charlie and Jimmy and Hank. How do you avoid being pretentious when you're intelligent?" 

Jimmy: Oh.

Charlie: This is a really hard one.

Hank: Well, fir... I first want to say that pretentious might not have the exact definition that you think, it... Pretentious is like, trying to look important or trying to look intelligent, and often more intelligent or important than you actually are. So how do you avoid looking pretentious while you're intelligent may be is both the question you wanted to ask and also a really good way of illustrating how to look pretentious, which is what I just did by correcting your grammar on that question.

Jimmy: Yeah, I mean, so pretentious is kind of the same, it's like having a delusion of grandeur, isn't it? So I'd say if you are genuinely quite knowledgeable about a topic and you're speaking about it sincerely and passionately, no one will ever see that as pretentious, 'cause it's coming from an honest place. You'll only come across as pretentious if you're trying to make out that you're cleverer than you actually are, like you're just trying to sound smart for the sake of sounding smart, when actually, you don't know what you're talking about.

Charlie: Well, I don't know that I agree. I feel like you can sometimes be honestly smart, like, just really really smart, and that other people can see you, and if they don't know what you're saying, they can sometimes be like, "Ehh, he's just a bit pretentious, isn't he?" 'Cause it is both things, it's both, you know, not actually having the actual insight and trying to pretend that you have, but it's also just a perception that people have of you. But what I tend to do if I have a fact that I want to get across, I always kind of try and preface it with some kind of "I don't know this for sure" and "the universe is a confusing place" and "who knows, really what time is, but here's this thing", I always try and slip, like, a vibe of that into whenever I'm putting across a fact like "Here's something that I found out", kind of separate it from me.

Jimmy: Yeah, and I think there's just a case of, it's a case of being aware if somebody maybe isn't following you, if you're trying to explain something, so if somebody seems like they're a little bit lost when you're chatting about something that you happen to know a lot about, just be aware of that, and explain things in a slightly simpler or more accessible way. 

Hank: And also, also be aware of the fact that people might not care about the thing that you're excited about, and so they might be, think that you're pretentious because you continually, you know, like, are really excited about things that you're really excited about, and they're like, "why does he keep" or "why does this person", I obviously just projected this onto myself, "why does this person continually try and make themselves look so smart?" Because they just might have different interests than you, and that's a whole different kind of intelligence where you're looking at a person and you're saying, you know, like, what is this person, like, what are they into and how do I, you know, interact with them in a way that will make them excited to be my friend and be talking to me, and also how do I make this information sort of more interesting to them, like, how do I put myself in their shoes and say like, what's, how's this topic gonna be... 'cause everybody, you know, everybody is going to get excited about things for different reasons, so maybe, you know, think about that. I have this problem, though, and sometimes people will say things to me and I have this awful habit of saying "Do you actually want to know?" because, which is a really pretentious thing to say, but it's like, it's my honest response, like, people are like, "God, why don't we have wireless chargers yet? Why do we have to have all these cords all around all the time?" And I'm like, "Well, there's an answer to that question, but do you actually want to know it, because it's gonna take about five minutes to explain and..."

Charlie: Well, how do you think you could phrase that better then to be less pretentious? Or should you just not say that at all?

Hank: I think I should just not bring it up. I think when I know the answer to a question that people are asking rhetorically, I, like I think I should just be like "They are not actually interested in this." But then sometimes I'm like "Well they keep asking about it, are they? Do they want to know? Should I launch into a five minute monologue on you know, power induction and electromagnetism?"

(Jimmy and Charlie laugh)

Jimmy: Hey, that's a monologue I want to hear.

Hank: Well it's not gonna happen right now on Cereal Time. Uh, this isn't Cereal Time, I thought I was on your show for a second.

Charlie: That's the effect we have.

Jimmy: I think that's right though. I think actually, you can just sort of, if you feel like you're being a bit pretentious or a little bit nerdy, just own up to that. Be like "I'm aware that I sound like a massive nerd now so stop me if this gets boring but..."

Hank: Yeah!

Jimmy: And then go off on your...

Hank: Yeah. That's excellent advice for me. That is what I will do next time.

Charlie: Nice.

Hank: I will be like "Look, I'm a nerd and I kind of want to launch, I kind of want to do that, but be aware that, know that you might want me to shut up any second now."

 Question 2 (11:20)

Jimmy: OK, cool, I like this. This is from Ilene and she says, "Dear Jimmy, Charlie, and Hank. What are your opinions on school uniforms and clothing restrictions in non-uniform schools?"

Hank: Hmm. Wow. I, yeah. I went to a school that had very few clothing restrictions, though I'm sure that there were plenty and I'm sure that they mostly restricted the clothes of females because that's how it goes, you can't distract the boys. But yeah, I... Did you guys have school uniforms?

Jimmy: Yeah, I... When I was younger I can remember watching American teen movies and always being baffled by this idea that in America, you can go to school wearing trainers and jeans.

Charlie: I'm really jealous. Yeah, I had school uniforms as well. I also went to an all boys school so I didn't ever experience any kind of, like, restrictions that were put on girls, it was just restrictions on dudes.

Hank: Yeah. Did you have, like, a smart uniform, Jimmy?

Jimmy: Yeah, it was quite smart. We wore a tie. In fact, I think the last time I wore a tie in life was because I had to at school. That's the only time it's ever happened. But I quite liked it 'cause it meant that you never had to think about what you wanted to wear for school and everyone was kind of on the same level. Like, I think the reason the uniform thing is a thing in the UK is 'cause it's supposedly, it gets rid of any class barriers 'cause, like, everyone's dressed the same. Like, you can't tell which kids are less well off than other kids which I quite like. It was always quite stressful when we had non-uniform days and you had to think of something cool to wear to school 'cause there was a huge deal around it. So we'd have maybe have one day of the year where for charity you could come into school, like, wearing your cool sports top. Or a baseball cap.

Charlie: Yeah.

Jimmy: And I always found that quite stressful. I was like "I don't know what to wear. I need to make a good impression. Oh God."

Charlie: I feel like, and I think this is just, this comes from, like, if you go to school every day wearing a uniform, the one day of the year where you don't have to do that, kind of becomes, like you want to treat it like a free day because you're kinda used to wearing those clothes on the weekends. So I feel like less work happens, like, less work tends to happen on those days where you can just wear whatever you want. But I assume that if you do wear whatever you want every single day of the week, that that doesn't happen. That's my guess anyway.

Jimmy: So what are these clothing restrictions then? What are you not allowed to wear within the realm of non-school uniform?

Hank: Oh, well. There's, there's, you know, when you can wear anything there're things you can't wear. Like you can't have curse words or references to drugs on your clothes. You can't, like, there's a limit to the length or the shortness of, of, like, shorts and skirts oftentimes. Like, it has to be a certain distance from the knee and, uh, and, and there's also sometimes restrictions on the, the depth of the cut of the neck. 

Jimmy: Oh wow, okay.

Hank: Is the way that a school administrator would say that, and yeah.

Jimmy: Wait, so is there a teacher wandering around with a ruler then, and just making sure that the, "Come here, no, that's a centimeter out, go home". Wow.

Hank: It, yeah. I mean, the... to me, I am in favor of letting, of allowing people to express themselves and identi- and like, and create their identities in whatever ways they can, that doesn't seem to be a negative thing to allow people to do, but I do totally understand where you guys are coming from where you know, you just sort of like, erase that very, you know, very common and very difficult to ignore class distinction, though...

Charlie: It's weird, 'cause I feel like in any other scenario, I'd like, completely agree with you, but I think it's just because living in that world of having uniforms and it never really being a problem, it's just kind of what we're used to, I guess. And there was always like, a certain amount of freedom to do some stuff, like it would, it would always be quite surprising, I think, to anybody looking at kids wearing school uniforms like, how much of themselves they can get across, by, like, the way that they wear their tie and what they might wear underneath their shirt and like, putting their blazer on their head or whatever it might be, like, there's always like, ways to make it so that you can show people the kind of person you are. So I never really felt restricted, but maybe I would have if I was not used to it. 

Jimmy: Oh, yeah, I remember that, there was a whole, there was a whole like, load of etiquette around how you wear your school uniform at my school. So we had a shirt and a tie, and then a jumper over the shirt, and if you had the collars of your shirt over your jumper, that was like a signifier that you were a mass- you were a massive nerd. Like, that was the thing that you didn't want to do, you'd get completely ripped apart for that. So, it's funny how even within a uniform, like, kids still find ways-

Charlie: Oh yeah.

Jimmy: -of kind of not only expressing yourself but putting, like, "cool" signifiers in there, for want of a better phrase.

Hank: Well, Eileen, I think that what we've got for you is basically stories about our schoolhood and very few actual opinions, because maybe this isn't a topic that super matters a ton when it comes to uniforms, though I do feel like clothing restrictions when it comes to that, seem to out, abnormally weigh upon the females of the world, which seems a little bit odd to me, so maybe school uniforms are a good way to just avoid that particular problem and say, "Everybody wear this, let's not talk about anything else." 

Jimmy: Yeah.

 Question 3 (16:54)

Hank: It's my turn. We have a question from Courtney who says, "Dear Hank and Charlie and Jimmy. This upcoming presidential election will be my first time able to vote for a president. It is both exciting and daunting. I think that I have a general idea of who I might vote for, but I was wondering if there was any way to keep abreast on the presidential candidates?"

Jimmy: Oh wow.

Hank: You guys aren't American, but you are politically active British people.

Jimmy: Oh yeah.

Charlie: We have politics here.

Hank: You can, you can....

Jimmy: Yeah, we had a very exciting election a few months ago.

Charlie: Yeah, was it exciting? I found it quite depressing personally, but...

Jimmy: Yeah, I mean, the result was depressing, but the lead up to it, there was some excitement there. I think there was a lot of optimism like, "Ooh, maybe this is the time it will change, like maybe the good guys will win."

Charlie: And it did change. It got worse.

Jimmy: Yeah, it got a lot worse. It got a lot lot worse, so we now don't have an NHS.

Hank: Sorry about that.

Jimmy: And we've decided to get rid of school. We don't have school anymore.

Charlie: And bring back killing foxes, everyone.

Jimmy: Oh, yeah, and we can now kill foxes. So it's really great, it's a really brilliant place to live. I don't understand the US election system particularly, so...

Hank: Oh yeah, it's very strange, it's ver... We've got a whole bunch of weirdness in our election system, but I think that it... The first time you vote, the first time you're getting into this, it's definitely a daunting task to be like, "Okay, here are all the issues, there's like 85 things I'm supposed to care about, and I'm gonna have an opinion on all of them, so I'd better get one quick" and that's terrifying, like, why... And that's why I think a lot of people don't, a lot of young people, like, their first elections, they might not vote, just because, like, they haven't had time to like, deal with that and internalize all of their opinions about these things and because they have to, you know, make ends meet, and you know, buy Gatorade and Ramen noodles. So the, there are places, though, there's this website called, I think it's called, which sort of walks you through all of the issues and it's like, "What do you think about gun control? What do you think about bombing other countries? What do you think about Healthcare?" and sort of just based on your, who you are and what you think, it will then, like, not only, it walks you a little bit through the issues themselves and like, the different perspectives people have on them, and then it tells you who you are most aligned with politically in terms of the current field of presidential candidates, which I did, and found very accurate, so...

Jimmy: That's really cool, that sounds really, really great. I think there's a similar app for UK stuff as well, which I used this year, and it worked pretty well, but I guess it's just like, sort of learning about any new thing, isn't it? You just need to go away, do a little bit of research, try not to be overwhelmed by it all, 'cause it is quite, like, a clunky complicated thing, and it's like, it almost feels like quite a scary decision to make, like, to choose the political party or person you want to align yourself with, so just try not to be overwhelmed by that, and just try your best to form an independent opinion and not be too swayed by friends or family members or stuff that people say on Twitter.

Charlie: Yeah, on that point of just feeling like you have to care about absolutely everything all of a sudden, when I first started, like, when I was, it was my first time to vote, what I did do was just like, looked to see what the things were that were most important to me, and that was kind of, that's what I use as my kind of benchmark for the, figuring out the kind of parties that I might be interested in.

Jimmy: But I mean, that in itself is quite hard, isn't it?

Charlie: Oh yeah.

Jimmy: 'Cause you sort of have to decide which issues you care most about, like, do I care most about NHS or like, should education be the thing?

Charlie: I did always find instinctively there was at least one thing that was like, "Oh, yeah, this, yeah, I obviously really care about that", so if you can find whatever that thing is, if you can just sort of trust your gut of "Oh yeah, that thing, education, actually, yeah, that's the thing I really care about", then maybe just veer around that area and see what everyone's policies are on education.

Jimmy: Yeah, and just don't vote for one of the bad ones.

(Everyone laughs)

Charlie: Yeah, just make sure you don't ruin your country.

Jimmy: Yeah. It's as simple as that, really.

Hank: Wow. That was fantastic advice, I think you guys are better at this than me and John are, and you should take over the show and have your own... Maybe you should do this every morning, five days a week.

Jimmy: What, Charlie and Jimmy's political bit, where we just say, "Don't vote for the bad guys"?

Hank: No, just talking, just generally talking together, like, I think every morning, like, you should just, you guys should just talk about stuff.

Charlie: I think you might have already had that idea, Hank.

 Question 4 (21:30)

Hank: Jimmy, do you want to do another question?

Jimmy: Yeah, I think it's your turn though, isn't it, Charlie?

Charlie: It is my turn. 

Jimmy: I mean, I can read one out if you like. Don't wanna jump the queue.

Hank: Oh, I'm sorry, gah, how do I, how am I supposed to keep track, you're both British, I can't... How do you even tell?

Charlie: I really hope that for non-British viewers, that you will be able to tell me and Jimmy apart. I think we have pretty distinctive voices, but...

Hank: You do have very...

Charlie: Okay, good. Alright, we got one from Lily. She asks, "Dear Charlie and Jimmy and Hank. Hello! What are you supposed to do with other people and your stomach" - that is how it's phrased - "and your stomach makes a noise that sounds like a fart and you want to tell everyone it wasn't a fart but that would just make it sound like it was a fart?" (All laugh)

Jimmy: What!? Lily, what are you on about?

Charlie: Your stomach makes a noise and it sounds like a fart and you wanna say, "That wasn't a fart," but as soon as you say, "That wasn't a fart," everyone's like, "It was a fart though wasn't it."

Jimmy: Oh, okay, so you... Lily's stomach is making fart noises, essentially.

Hank: Yes, and she wants to know what to do about it.

Jimmy: I would say seek medical advice.

Hank: Oh, no, no.

Jimmy: No, no, it's fine, do you know what, I have actually got experience with this. I was once filming for a TV show and I had a microphone on under my shirt, a little lapel microphone, and I wasn't feeling great that day, I think maybe I'd had quite a late night, and my stomach was doing things I didn't want it to be doing the next day, and apparently, this was very audible on the microphone which was under my shirt, so embarrassingly, in front of the whole crew, a whole roomful of people, proper professional people with cameras and lights, had to stop filming until my stomach stopped making these noises, because it was ruining the film. It was so embarrassing, so I totally feel your pain, Lily, and you kind of just have to laugh it off like any embarrassing thing.

Hank: Yeah. Yeah, the trick to dealing with embarrassment is self-confidence, which is a trait that is entirely impossible to acquire, as far as I can tell.

Charlie: Oh no, come on. You can acquire it. It's fake it till you make it, isn't it?

Hank: Yes.

Charlie: That's what I've been trying to do, that you just try and pretend, you just act like a confident person and then eventually you start being a more confident person. That's always been my technique.

Hank: That does...

Charlie: But I definitely agree, it's just, you just say... Really, you just sort of have to try to figure out how to not care about it as much, and to get that across to people.

Jimmy: Turn it into a joke. Say, "Guys, it's just my stomach".

Hank: Yeah.

Jimmy: "I haven't farted, but I have pooped myself, (Hank laughs) so I'm gonna have to leave." And then, you know, I think that'll sort out who your real friends are, as well.

Hank: No, you gotta say, "Look, I ate a demon and I was helping my family, it was living in the house, there's only one way to kill it, and it was to eat it alive. It was a very small demon, about the size of a coin, and I just took it with water and now it's in there, it's doing its thing, but you know, it's digesting away and it won't be a problem tomorrow." My bigger problem, personally, is sometimes I really have to fart in public, and like...

Jimmy: Yeah.

Hank: It's just not gonna not happen, and so, even sometimes, you have to be like, look, you know what just ha- I have to be like that old guy who just doesn't care anymore, and is just like, raaaaa, and then that's...

Charlie: Do you not, like, make an event of it before it happens? That's what I do sometimes.

Hank: Oh, that's a good idea.

Charlie: I just, I build everyone up to it before it comes, just like, quieting the room to make sure everyone can hear it, it comes out, and then we try to move on.

Jimmy: Right, so tiny little drum roll, and then that's the crescendo.

Charlie: Yeah, I do that a lot.

Hank: Oh, God, I love it. Well, we've got, I feel like we've got some really good advice all round here. That's good.

  Question 5 (25:28)

Jimmy: Yeah, there you go, Lily. Alright, so, Catherine asks, she says, "Dear Jimmy, Charlie, and Hank. I'm coming up on the one year anniversary of starting my first full-time job. I'm enjoying it, and I've learned a ton so far, and am planning to stay for a while longer, but also trying to think proactively about my future. Do you have any advice for developing an early career, making adult decisions about when and where to move or how to go about looking for new opportunities? I'm also curious on how one decides when to go back to school and get a grad degree?" Oh, there's a lot in there, Catherine. I mean, that's life, innit? That is life in a question. It's hard.

Hank: How do you make decisions about big important things?

Charlie: It's really, really hard and I feel like I haven't lived a lot of this stuff myself, like, I came straight out of school, went into making YouTube videos, never had to think about getting a graduate's degree, never had to, yeah. I just, I feel like I have to sit this one out, 'cause I would be having more trouble than you are, Catherine, right now.

Jimmy: I think, yeah, I can totally see how it's really easy to get trapped in full-time employment, because when somebody starts paying you money every month to do a thing, that's quite, it's quite easy to get used to that, even if you don't necessarily enjoy the job. The money thing is quite nice, especially if you've not had that before. So I guess it's just about, I dunno, maybe looking, it's looking at where you wanna be, kind of your dream job, your dream life scenario, seeing other people who are in similar positions to that, and maybe looking at how they got there and following a similar route to them, I dunno.

Hank: If you have a job that doesn't, it doesn't look to you like this job is going to lead to better jobs within the same company or you continuing to develop your skills and, you know, continuing to do different, cool things that excite or interest you, then you probably do want to be looking around at least semi-actively at like, things that your friends are doing, things that, if you've been through college already, things that you are, you know, people who graduated around the same time as you are doing, and yeah, and being open to that. There's nothing wrong with looking for other jobs if you, you know, while you have a job. That is a totally normal thing and you shouldn't be devoting, like, tons and tons of time to that just because you probably don't have that time to devote, and you should also have a life and enjoy things. But yeah, I think it's totally normal, and I expect, you know, when I have employees that I feel like they are being underutilized, I expect them to be looking for other jobs, and also, as an employer, I think that it's my responsibility to make sure that they aren't being underutilized at the company, so if I have an opportunity for them to advance and to be doing something more interesting than their current job, then I feel like that's my responsibility and if I don't do that, then I should expect that they will eventually leave, and that's one reason why I, you know, when I look at the people I've got working for me, I'm like, "I need to make sure that this person in particular, we find something for them that's more interesting or less awful than their current job, and then they will not leave and go away and not be working for me anymore". So, you know, I think that there's a lot to be said for being really good at the job you're in right now, because that will affect, you know, you, like, you will get better recommendations from your current employer and it will also potentially lead for, to getting, you know, promoted at your current position, whatever that position is, and yeah. So you know, definitely don't just think like, "This job is a full-time job and like, it's just the money", it's always good to be thinking about how you can do your job really well and I think that that has, in my life at least, led to more personal satisfaction, when I'm not thinking about it as just a paycheck, I'm actually thinking about it as like, this is part of my life and I'm spending a lot of time doing this, so I should be doing, you know, I should be believing in it and doing the best job I can, even if it's not a job that I particularly love or I think will lead me to my ultimate dream. I think that, you know, working hard at whatever job you have does kind of lead you toward your ultimate dream, because it exemplifies your work ethic and how you approach life, so yeah. I've had good luck with just working hard, even if I don't really like my job.

Jimmy: Yeah, and I think, do you know what, when you reach that point where you not only don't like a job but maybe even if you do like a job but feel you're not really getting anything out of it, then maybe that's a clue that it's time to move on.

Hank: Yeah.

Jimmy: Like, if you're not getting anything out of this anymore, if you're not developing with it, then what's the point?

Hank: Yeah, and you can absolutely, I encourage you to talk to your supervisor, your manager, your boss, about that, because when I have, I always, I like that, when people come to me and they say, like, "Look, I feel like I could be doing more interesting things and here are some of the more interesting things I think I could be doing", and you know, I often agree with them, and I'm like, "Hey, yeah, good ideas" because I can't have all the ideas.

Jimmy: It's a quite hard one to answer though, without knowing what Catherine's job is, like, she could have an amazing job. She could be a millionaire. She could be like, some, like, high-flying exec, who gets to jet around the world, we just don't know.

Hank: Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to answer this question in a way that works for both someone who works at a fast food restaurant and someone who works in investment banking, like... (All laugh)

 Question 6 (31:19)

Hank: Alright, it's my turn again. This question is from Daniel, who says, "Dear Hank and Charlie and Jimmy. Do you think science/scientific thinking can determine right from wrong? Are there objective ways to measure morality?" Well, that's another big one.

Charlie: Well, that's an easy one.

Jimmy: Oh wow, could you go back to the fart one? This is too hard.

Charlie: What do you think, Hank? I'd say this is a really tricky one.

Hank: No, I don't think that there are objective ways to measure morality. I... So like, Kant had his idea of the categorical imperative, which was like, this is the way to create a universal morality, and the way to create the universal morality was, you know, you should behave in a way that you think if everyone behaved in the same way as me, then the world would work really well. But that doesn't work, because not everyone will behave the same way as you, and people and different cultures believe and act in different ways, and that has to be okay, because otherwise, if we are, you know, like the one thing that that breeds is intolerance, and then saying, like, "Look, the way that you guys live your lives is wrong and is destroying the idea of what it is to be human and thus, we must kill you", and that's where all the big problems come from. I think that, I think that this sort of idea of moral absolutism is what creates a lot of conflict.

Charlie: Thinking about it, I feel like there maybe is a way to objectively measure morality without having that kind of, like, absolute morality, I guess, 'cause I feel like, in that case, isn't morality, it's ultimately what people perceive morality to be, so maybe if there was a way where you could kind of speak to every single individual on the planet and ask them every question, every big important question, every small question related to morality and ask them what their opinion was, then you could come up with a percentage, maybe, that said, you know, trying to think of something, like, petting a dog is 99% moral, according to the human race.

Jimmy: That's the example?

Charlie: That's the best I can come up with. Does that sound feasible or is that just... I'm just trying to figure out a way to answer this question where I can say yes, somehow, and that was my best.

Hank: The, so the... There's two different things. There's allowing every person to define their own morality, which I think you have to do to a small extent, but then there's the larger version of allowing a culture to define its morality, and I think that that is a thing, like, you can say, like, you know, there is a structure that we define as humans, it is the thing that we call culture, and it is different for different people, and we, there is definitely, I think, there are ways to evolve that and to make that, you know, more tolerant is the thing that I tend to want cultures to be. But in terms of the nitty gritty specific details, like, petting a dog versus a cat, like which one of these things is more moral, there's definitely gonna be some gray area there, and there's even weird gray area with something as seemingly unobjective or seemingly as objective as like, murder, where you have some cultures that are like, "Yeah", like, in America, where it's okay to kill people as long as the government has gone through a lengthy and expensive process to say that, "Yes, we should kill this person because they did something very bad", and in some countries, that, and in fact, in my own personal morality, I think that that is wrong. And then you have war, which is just like, how do we rationalize this, but we seem to, so...

Jimmy: I mean, that's... Morality in general is such a difficult thing to rationalize, and I think it would be impossible to ever reach a full consensus with it, 'cause you've got, you know, literally hundreds of thousands of years of history that has kind of shaped our morality and the human condition, I mean, that's what it comes down to, isn't it, it's a very, it's a human thing and I think it's what, you know, if we could reach a full consensus, we'd become a bit more robotic as a society.

Hank: Yeah, and I like the idea that we change and we evolve and hopefully we head in good directions, and I think there's also a thing here that is the desire to scientifically be able to say everything, and there are just some things that we cannot scientifically talk about, like there are some questions that science isn't supposed to answer, and science isn't designed to answer, things like, "What is the difference between right and wrong?", which, you know, I think that's a human question that every human has to decide and then collectively a culture decides and then collectively, cultures join together and decide for the world, and, you know, I think that greater stability will be had if we have some standardization there and that standardization involves tolerance of other cultures and other people, that's, yeah. But like, it's impossible to say.

 Question 7 (36:57)

Charlie: I've got an even trickier question here. Angela asks, "Dear Charlie and Hank and Jimmy. What were your best and worst subjects when you were at high school?"

(Grumble noises from everyone)

Jimmy: The big questions here. Wowza.

Charlie: I really liked art.

Jimmy: You were into art?

Charlie: Really into art, yeah.

Jimmy: Yeah, I was into art. I've kind of blocked the whole of school out.

Hank: Yeah, I actually...

Jimmy: I actually really enjoy it, so I've decided to forget about it.

Hank: I mean, I put this question in the notes and I can't really remember... I, like, why aren't my report cards searchable on Google so I could look this up?

Jimmy: Oh, God, imagine. I don't really want my report cards out there. I remember that I was terrible at sport, that was definitely my worst subject at school. I was the kid who would always have some made up ailment that would stop me playing tennis.

Charlie: I did that!

Jimmy: Or whatever. Yeah, I always had a note. So yeah, I mean, sport was just horrible. I mean, my memories of sport at school were just cold, wet, gray days on a frozen rugby field, having a ball thrown at me.

Charlie: I did that terrible thing where, as soon as I realized I wasn't amazing at it, I pretty much gave up. Like, my first, when I first went to secondary school, I was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna do sport and it's gonna be great" and I tried to play rugby and I tried out for the team, and I got in the second team, so I didn't get in the first team, and then I was like "eh", and then I just never was interested in sports again.

Jimmy: That makes a lot of sense, like, since I've got to know you better through working on Cereal Time quite closely, like, we hang out like, at least two or three times a week, you're actually secretly quite competitive.

Charlie: Oh, I'm very... it's not a secret anymore, but yeah, I am.

Jimmy: It's out there.

Charlie: I am competitive, I just, like, don't like to make a point of it, I don't like to make a point of it when we're actually competing.

Jimmy: Yeah, and it's not in a horrible way, like it's not in a really gross, like, kind of soccer mom type way, it's like, it's just something that's there.

Charlie: I just like winning. No, I think that what it is is I just find myself getting really embarrassed when I lose, that's really what it is.

Jimmy: Okay. Were you kind of the kid, who, if he was losing the race, would just throw themselves down and like pretend to have a knee injury?

Charlie: Um, I'm usually, I was usually like, it still happens right now, like, if I try and play a board game with people, and I'm on like, a team and I can't quite figure out the answer to give the, like, playing Pictionary and it's not quite going well, I would just be like, mortified, like, so horribly embarrassed, I would just like, not have a good time at all. So that's, that's me,

Jimmy: Inside Charlie McDonnell.

Charlie: I liked art. I didn't like PE, that sounds about right, really.

Jimmy: Yeah, I was... Sorry, go on Hank.

Hank: I, I can't remember. I wa... I definitely did well, I don't think that I... Well. No, I was good at memorizing stuff, which was most of American education, so I just, I feel like I did, I did well in most things. I didn't really ever get a C until, until college, but I do remember that I almost failed a class in Landscape Design, so like, the placing of plants around a yard-

Jimmy: What?! That's not a real class surely!

Hank: -for the beautification of a home or a business.

Jimmy: What?!

Hank: And I almost failed that class because I skipped it too many times, but I had a freak out and I screamed and I kicked and I ran, I stormed out of the classroom and I beat up a locker and then the teacher was like, "Maybe we'll take a couple of these absentees off of your record, I'll just let you have the B."

Jimmy: Whoa.

Charlie: Wow.

Hank: So yeah. I almost failed that class.

Jimmy: I would love to see...

Hank: But I freaked out and it saved me.

Jimmy: I would love to see you two play a board game together. That would be incredible. I think that there'd certainly be tears. Possibly violence.

Charlie: Have we not done that, Hank? I feel like it was fine.

Hank: I don't think we have ever played a board game.

Charlie: I think that we played card games before, I felt like I played a card game with you at VidCon last year. But, no...

Hank: Really?

Charlie: Yeah. Well, obviously it wasn't a big deal for you.

Hank: Oh, we should though. We have... The guys from drunk Beer and Board Games, drunk... My Drunk Beer and Board Games, are going to be at VidCon this year, so maybe we can make, maybe we could play with them. Do you drink, Charlie?

Charlie: I do, yeah. This is going back to, you know, changing your, what you think is moral, to a certain extent. Obviously, drinking isn't sort of like a huge issue, but over the course of the last couple years, I have started drinking. I was completely teetotal for a long time, like, I was teetotal, I knew I was teetotal before I even was old enough to actually drink, like, when I was sixteen, I was like, "I am never gonna drink" and uh, yeah, that has changed.

Jimmy: If you look very closely in Charlie's last six vlogs, he's completely drunk in every single one of them. He can barely stand up. That's not true. It's not true. Should we do another question?

 Question 8 (41:47)

Hank: Alright, we can, this is our, this is our last question of the questions before we get to the news. This one's from Grace who says, "Dear Hank and Charlie and Jimmy. My friend's little sister has a toy remote controlled car that started moving and lighting up on its own. They've had it for five years and the batteries haven't been changed since they got it. They got used to it and never had a re... They got it used, and it never had a remote control. Recently, the headlights lit up and started moving a little, forward and back..." That's not what it says, "They got it used and it never had a remote control. Recently, the headlights lit up and it started moving a little forward and backward. Any idea what might be happening?" Charlie, is it a ghost?

Charlie: Um, yeah, exorcise it.

Hank: Yeah, exorcise, not exercise, exorcise.

Charlie: Exorcise. No, exercise it. Just give it a good work out. Wear it out, and then it will be a, once it's nice and tired, it will stop moving. That's what I meant.

Hank: That actually would work, if you wanted to make it stop moving, you just, you just keep it moving for long enough, or you know, take the batteries out.

Charlie: Yeah, no, that would be... I, yeah. It's definitely a ghost, I think. I think we've established on this podcast that...

Hank: When I was, I actually did a little research on this question, 'cause I wanted to see if, like, radio transmissions from nearby things, whether that was, you know, radio controlled microphones or somebody's radio controlled airplane that might have a really strong transmitter, or you know, a drone or something might be, you know, making this thing move, like, pick- this thing might be picking up those signals, so I, that is possible, that is a thing that can happen. It is also possible that it just has a loose wire, but I did find, in the first like, this was not an uncommonly searched question, and in the first, like, three responses, there was a ghost bulletin board forum that was like, "Yes, it is probably a ghost", and I was like, "Wow, that, they sure did have that answer, you know, really ready to go."

Jimmy: I like the idea of the undead just deciding to possess a remote controlled car, like, that's how they're coming back to planet Earth. I'm going to take over that remote controlled car.

Charlie: It's just a really bashful ghost.

Jimmy: Yeah, just a bit shy.

Charlie: It's like, "I don't really wanna possess people yet, I'll just have a go at this little car, just move it back and forth a little, that's me done."

Jimmy: Hey, maybe the spirit world don't get a choice. Maybe it was just like, "Oh, right, so I'm a ghost, but I'm a remote controlled car, great. Brilliant."

Hank: This is, I would watch this movie. Tell me more.

Charlie: I'm almost definitely sure I was watching Freddy Wong's channel recently, and I saw that they, I think he did like, a sketch of some sort, where it's like a cop gets, possesses a remote controlled car and that's like, and it... Everybody loves the car and it's great at doing its job. So I think that might be taken.

Hank: Okay.

Jimmy: I mean, my sister used to have a Furby, and that in itself used to terrify me.

Hank: Ohhh, what if a ghost possessed a Furby!?

Jimmy: And I mean, that was supposed to be terrifying. Oh my God, I mean, that...

Hank: It's like Chuckie, except with a Furby. It's just sort of hobbling around slowly being menacing. It would be really hard to have a Furby actually hurt you, I feel like, 'cause they, they can't grasp things or move their arms, but...

Jimmy: Oh, no, they just have to crush you psychologically.

Hank: Yes.

Jimmy: That's what would be so creepy about it.

Hank: No, that's actually...

Jimmy: They wouldn't be able to lay a finger on you.

Hank: That would be a really good, a good horror movie. Just psychologically crushing. Like, they'd trap you in a room, and then they just, every time you fall asleep, they just scream at you, and terrorize you, and that's, that's the whole movie is just not letting you ever forget that you have this possessed toy in your life.

Charlie: That would be pretty low-budget as well, I think we could do that if we wanted.

 News from AFC Wimbledon (45:30)

Hank: And now it is time for the news from Mars, the fourth planet in our solar system, and AFC Wimbledon, a fourth-tier English soccer team. Guys, do you have any AFC Wimbledon news for us?

Charlie: With glee and amazement, I bring you probably very important news. The Dons have signed Scunthorpe United striker, Lyle Taylor for, wait for it, an undisclosed fee.

All: Ooh.

Charlie: Taylor, I feel so bad for John, I feel so bad. I felt like, I initially wanted to do this with like, genuine enthusiasm, 'cause I feel like the most, the best bit of like, you know, this whole news section, is the fact that John is so actually excited about this football team that is so small, but it's too difficult. Yeah, Lyle Taylor, they hired him, undisclosed fee, he scored four times in 25 appearances last season.

All: Whoa, wow.

Jimmy: Wow, 4 out of 25. Is that good in football? I dunno anything about football.

Charlie: It's amazing. It's incredible. Like, I don't, I read that statistic and I didn't believe.

Jimmy: So he really is worth his undisclosed fee. Wowza.

Charlie: Yes. 

Jimmy: I mean, I am trembling with excitement right here. Like, I don't think I've ever been this excited before. I've got some, oh no, this is a continuation of that news story, it's not over guys, oh no. Neal Ardley, the manager of the Dons, said he was interested in Taylor because, "He has very good movement and technique. His finishing is very good, and he's also quick." Of course, I've no idea whether that's a big deal or not. It sounds impressive. I mean, that's literally the first thing that came up when we searched for AFC Wimbledon, so, I think that means it's good.

Charlie: I mean, it's a player, they got a new player, that's a big football deal.

Hank: That's definitely news. That's definitely news.

Charlie: It is an actual deal that has been made.

Hank: It is a deal. It, yes. And now they have a new striker, which is a great name for a position on a football field. He strikes things.

Charlie: Sounds, sounds very impressive.

Hank: I think mostly balls.

Jimmy: Well, you know, he's got good movement and technique, that's the manager saying that, an expert. He's got good movement and technique, and his finishing is very good. What's not to like there?

Charlie: Also, I've done some more...

Hank: And he is also quick.

Charlie: I've done some more research. Wimbledon have not disclosed the length of his contract.

Jimmy: They're very secretive, aren't they?

Charlie: What does that mean?

Hank: It's true!

Charlie: Oh, interesting.

Hank: Yeah, they don't, we don't know how long he'll be there.

Charlie: There's just so much mystery wrapped up in this.

 News from Mars (48:00)

Hank: Alright, I got some Mars news. In Mars news, some very surprising rocks were found in Gale Crater by the Curiosity rover this week. The rocks, which are striated and dense with silica are completely unexpected and very similar to granite rocks that one might find here on Earth. Most Mars rocks we find are clearly igneous rocks, but this granitic rock containing quartz and feldspar means that Mars probably, billions of years ago, had continental plates that drifted just like Earth's. Those plates have long since frozen in place, but these rocks indicate that Mars was once even more Earth-like that we previously imagined.

Charlie: That's really interesting, I found out recently that Earth was the only planet with tectonic plates, and now that has been squashed by yet more science, that's cool.

Hank: Yeah! Yeah!

Charlie: Did I, I've told you that I got to see the Curiosity rover before it was on Mars, right?

Hank: Uh, no.

Charlie: I haven't told you that? I feel like I must have at some point. Either that or you just genuinely don't remember any interactions we've ever had, which seems to be a possibility.

Hank: I'm not a good rememberer. I will say that about me.

Charlie: Okay, well, that's fine, yeah, no, I got... A lovely man from NASA showed me around the Jet Propulsion Labs before Curiosity was sent off to Mars, so I got to see it. I didn't get to touch it, saw it through a window, still lots of people working on it, but it was there in front of me, and it was very exciting.

Jimmy: That's so cool.

Hank: Yeah, it's a big thing, and no, they do not like you to touch things like that. I got, I went and got to see some pieces of the James Webb Space Telescope and they made me put on all kinds of special clothes, and I didn't get to touch anything at all.

Charlie: What do you mean by special clothes? You mean, a pretty hat or...

Jimmy: Yeah, I'm imagining sort of like, a Victorian ball gown right now.

Hank: No, it was just a British schoolboys uniform.

Jimmy: Oh, okay, so nothing weird.

Hank: A blazer and a tie and...

Jimmy: Sure.

Hank: I put my collar on top of the blazer so that everyone knew I was a total nerd.

Charlie: I will say this about my experience at NASA, in the NASA Jet Propulsion Labs, the guy I met at NASA, I forget his name and I feel bad about that, but he was so smart and I spent like, a good, like, 80% of that trip just sort of nodding while he said stuff that just went completely over my head. He was so intelligent and it was so hard to keep up with him, but I still found it awesome being there.

Jimmy: That's how I felt with the surprising rocks that you've just read out, Hank. I had no idea about any of that. Didn't understand a word.

Hank: Yeah, I'm not really a geology guy either, so I didn't know most of what I just said, I just said the stuff that it said in the article that I was paraphrasing.

Jimmy: I just love the idea that there are surprising rocks out there, that that's a thing. I've never been surprised by a rock.

Hank: The... In Montana, we have these things called erratics, which are exactly surprising rocks, is exactly what they are. They are rocks that shouldn't be here, so they are erratic rocks, and they are mostly deposited by the recession of glaciers during ice ages, so there will be this big rocks that just doesn't belong and it's like, how did this giant rock that has nothing to do with the local geology get here? And it's like, oh yeah, it was carried along by a glacier and then the glacier melted and then it was there.

Jimmy: Oh, that's really cool. That's cool.

Hank: Yeah. Surprising rocks!

Jimmy: Yeah, surprising rock, the new feature.

Charlie: And now in news from surprising rocks.

  Conlcusion (51:15)

Hank: Alright, that is it for this episode of Dear Hank and John, without John and guest hosted by the hosts of Cereal Time, Charlie McDonnell and Jimmy Hill. Thank you guys for joining us.

Jimmy: Thank you.

Charlie: Does this mean that there are more Dear Hank and John podcasts without John in them?

Hank: I think that we are now equal with the number of John episodes that there are and that next week, we will, we will, it will no longer be mostly Dear Hank and John, it will be mostly Dear Hank and Other People. But then, John will come back and we will overtake that total once again, though I wouldn't be surprised if it hits roughly 50/50 and kind of, like, wibbles around that mix for the next couple years as John continues to do too many things.

Jimmy: I think you just need to audition for a new brother, Hank. You need to do, like, an X-Factor style audition thing. Who will be the new John?

Charlie: He might be doing that right now. We don't know.

Jimmy: Yeah, maybe.

Charlie: Look at all these people he's talking to. Who knows?

Jimmy: Oh, this could be the audition.

Hank: Alright, everybody, our theme music is by Gunnarolla, the podcast is edited by Nicholas Jenkins, if you have any questions for us, you can please send them to and as we say in our hometown...

All: Don't forget to be awesome.

Charlie: We did our best.

Jimmy: Like a barbershop quartet.