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This week, Chelsea talks with journalist and money expert Farnoosh Torabi all about the realities faced by women who outearn their husbands, how to protect your money in times of crisis, and why she left NYC now that her kids are older.

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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Financial Confessions where, if you are watching, you know I have a fresh chop and a new lease on life, and a guest today that I am very, very excited about, because she's been highly requested by some of you, and I know that a lot of you know her if you hang out in the personal finance world, which I'm pretty sure that you probably do.

But before we meet her, I want to say a quick hello to our beloved partners with whom we create every episode of The Financial Confessions. So as you guys may already know by now, we make every episode of The Financial Confessions in partnership with Intuit.

And if you're not familiar with Intuit, you are almost certainly familiar with a lot of their amazing products. Basically, they give you every tool that you need to help make your financial life more understandable, more efficient, more easy to navigate, and something that you can really feel you have control over. When it comes to your personal budget, they make an app called, Mint, which I have been personally using for about seven years now to do my own everyday personal financial biddings.

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So it might be worth checking that out. I personally use QuickBooks every day to manage the finances here at TFD. But no matter what your needs are, chances are you are going to want a tool to help you navigate your finances better and more effectively.

And Intuit has every product you need for all of those different elements of your financial life. Check them out, and get started now, at the link in our description, or our show notes. So as I promised, we have a guest here today whom a lot of you are familiar with.

But if you are not, her name is, Farnoosh Torabi. She is a financial expert, an author, a host, a journalist, a mother, a wife, a New Yorker. Yes.

She wears many hats. Yes. Did I miss anything?

I think you covered all the ground. Podcaster-- I think you said podcaster. Well, I said hosts which could be-- A lot of hosting.

Yes. But she has a podcast called, So Money, which just hit its thousandth episode. Yes.

Which is a lot of episodes. I think we're on episode-- this will be episode 16 or something, and I am exhausted. So-- a thousand is a lot.

Yeah. A thousand is a lot. But I've also been doing it for five years and I love it.

Turns out when you like what you do, you stop counting. Yeah. That's a good-- that's a good way to put it.

And so as I mentioned, you're a New Yorker. Tell me about-- 17 years. 17 years. That's a lot of years in New York.

All the way from living with a married couple in a rent controlled apartment-- In a throuple situation. --on the Upper West Side. In a thrup-- I was not-- Yeah. A polycule.

I just answered an ad. And that sounds even worse. Yeah, they were lovely.

And then, all the way to getting married, having kids, living in Brooklyn with our family, but soon to leave the state. To go where? To go to New Jersey, which I thought would never be my life.

I thought, I'm a New Yorker for life. Fording the river. But honestly-- and we can talk about this-- at some point I think that the cost of living here-- you get to a diminishing return.

And no matter how much more you're making, it's just that the hustle-- and I'm not saying like the work hustle-- just the hustle of living here is a little hard-- a lot hard some days. Especially in the winter when it's extremely cold. I have two little kids.

Going just to the grocery store and coming back-- the cost of living here is no joke. And I always joke that when people tell me they're having like their third kid or their fourth kid. I'm like, you're just showing off because how much money do you have?

Oh, there's a book called, Primates of Park Avenue, which I've mentioned before on this show because it's very entertaining. Oh, yeah. I want to read that.

And so she's on the Upper East Side in this whole microcosm. And she was like the ultimate status symbol in New York City. And it's particularly in Manhattan, is when women are like, I have six kids.

Oh, my gosh. So tell me a little bit about raising two children in New York City as to this point, financially and logistically. Well, it's a lot, Chelsea.

I'll tell you. It's not simple. Seems like it.

But, you know, there's great-- as for as much money as it is, and as for as difficult as it is sometimes just, like, the transportation and moving around-- the city is so rich for families in terms of culture, and we've made amazing friends here, we love our children's schools. But at some point you realize that the life that you've designed, my husband and I, it's great for us, but maybe not so much for our family unit. And so we're increasingly making decisions leading with, what is best for our kids.

And for them, you know, as our son gets older-- he's going to be six this summer-- we're learning that he has some learning differences. And so the school that he's at now is not ideal for him. And public school is not ideal for him either in New York City for-- frankly because I am not ready to navigate that whole diaspora of public school.

It's like, it's a lot. And parents who've gone through it tell me like-- I guess I'm just too lazy for it. I can't.

I want to just go to a suburb, drive there, take my kid there, I know that that's the one school and it's a good school-- as opposed to like these 100 schools. You have to do a lottery. It's like-- education should not be a lottery system.

OK? So that has been partly why we're looking outside of the area. But also, we just want to be able to open our backyard door and have them run around.

And living in the apartment that we have, which is lovely-- but I feel like as they get older, and as we as a family-- as the years go by, the space is just going to-- we're going to outgrow the space. That makes sense. We just want more space.

We want more bang for our buck. I tell you what, the houses that we're looking at in Montclair, price-wise, equivalent to like a one or two bedroom in New York City. So there you go.

I mean-- There you go. --for some people that's all they have to hear. Oh, yeah. It's funny.

I never feel more intimidated than when you see like a 12-year-old who's clearly a lifelong New Yorker on the train. Like they just have that energy of like, get out of my way lady. And I'm like, you are so adult.

I find it so intimidating. I find that when I go outside of New York and things are a little bit slower, i.e. normal paced, I get so frustrated. I can't.

I'm like, why is this person walking at a normal human's pace? You know, why aren't you speed walking? Or if I go to a restaurant-- why did it take me 15, 20 minutes for the server to come to my table?

Which might also be not good service. But I think that we-- 20 minutes is a lot. 20 minutes is a long time. But in New York we have this conditioning where we get things the way we want it, as we want it, quickly.

We're very high charged here. And I think I'm ready to like, bring it down a notch. We're OK with that.

We're looking forward to that. Yeah. And you're also a financial expert.

Some would say. Yeah. Tell me what that means for you?

Well, I've put in the work, Chelsea, you know, I started-- I mean, I'm 40 now. And I've been doing this since I was-- I would say, technically, since I was 20. I got my first internship at Money Magazine at 20, 21.

Got my articles published that summer as an intern. And really fell in love with financial journalism-- personal finance. And writing about people's true stories about how they mastered their money, whether that was getting out of debt, earning more, starting a business, teaching their kids about money, and everything in between.

And I caught the bug. And so I started in this field as a financial journalist, still considered to be one. But I'm old school, Chelsea.

I've been doing this since before Instagram, and before YouTube, and before Facebook. No such thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm an old school financial journalist who is now, you know, trying to keep up with everybody else who's got all the things going on. But I've been fortunate I've been able to have such a long career.

But I think the secret is to always keep it fresh, keep it new, be learning. So I have done all the different sorts of mediums. You know, I started in print, went over to video, television, radio, podcasts, book.

So for me, at least-- because it's also my personality-- I like to have a little bit of flavor in all the different ways that I share these money stories. What are some of the changes that you've noticed in financial media, and journalism, and people's relationship to it, pre and post 2008. That's a great question.

The number one, I would say, evolution, is that people are talking more about money. Where before it felt like pulling teeth. Right.

Where the only people talking about money were the money magazines of the world, the CNBCs of the world, the experts. And then it felt like it was a very one sided conversation. Like, we're going to tell you what to do, and you're going to listen.

And we don't really-- we think we know what's going on in your life because we do these annual studies. And we find that all these Americans are in debt. Whereas now, it's very much a conversation.

At least that's my perspective. That there are everyday people saying, OK, you know what? I'm not financially perfect, but I did personally get myself out of student loan debt, or I paid off my mortgage, or I retired early, or whatever, whatever.

The list goes on. And people are interested in those stories. And I recognize that, that is not a weakness in me.

That, that is actually a strength worth sharing. And so there's that happening. People are sharing.

And I think there are way more avenues to share. Right? So before, it was old school-- so there books, there was like the one channel on TV, and gosh, I don't even know, like workshops, maybe.

People went to a live event or something. Now there's social media. Now there's YouTube, there's podcasts, there are eBooks.

And so there's a lot of ways for people, in however where they feel most comfortable, to share those stories. And people are tapping in and I love it. I think that we learned that nobody's perfect about money.

Even the people we thought who were perfect, like all the Wall Streeters that were rich. We thought they had their financial you-know-what together. And a lot of them didn't.

And, you know, one stretch of bad market returns-- you saw what happened to their net worth. You know that it can happen to the best of us. And what sort of is something that we can all do that can sort of democratize this financial literacy space, is just talking about it.

Like, I am an expert, but guess what? Everyone tuning in to The Financial Diet, everyone who listens to my podcast, we all have expertise because we've lived life. And as far as I can tell, if you've lived life, you've probably encountered something financial in your life, whether that's earning, saving, getting out of debt.

And so what are those stories? We need to know them. Right?

You can't just rely on the experts, the so-called experts, to give all the advice. Because yeah, we've lived it, we've experienced it, we've studied it, but it should not be limited to us. And I think that's where we are right now.

Where we're seeing a lot of people sharing and who, you know, aren't sort of the traditional expert people where-- you know, I'm talking about like the Dave Ramseys of the world, the Suzy Ormans of the world-- that they just have colorful important stories to tell that can inspire and make start movements. And I think that's-- I hope that continues. Speaking of bad market returns, I've been getting, like, pelted with questions about what to do.

The market's having a rough one. I assume-- well, it's mostly because of the projected, you know, kind of flatline of the profits-- The uncertainty around-- --with regard to the coronavirus. Now obviously, the vast majority of our audience is rather young.

So the answer is, wait it out. Probably just don't even look at your portfolio right now, because it's just going to make you upset, and make you possibly panic. So just, like, ride it out.

But what about people who are a little bit closer to retirement, and feel a little scared about what they're 401K might look like? Sure. Well, I would say to those people who are older and approaching retirement that you definitely do want to look at your allocation.

So are you-- hopefully you're on some sort of 401K program that is automatically re-balancing your portfolio. Because when you start investing in anything like a 401K or-- an IRA-- there is, at this point these days, it's mostly automated and you can usually start by telling the algorithm, I'm 45, or I'm 50, or I'm going to retire by this date. Right?

Like, 2030, 2025. So the portfolio adjusts quarterly, or sometimes annually, taking in a number of factors. One of which, is when you want to retire.

And the closer you get to retirement age, your portfolio-- hopefully, the mix looks appropriate given that the time that you have left to start tapping into the money. So the rule of thumb is that-- and this is just a rule of thumb. But I like rules of thumb because it gives us a starting point.

But you take 100 and you subtract your age. And that is the percentage of how much, generally, you can afford to be in stocks, versus bonds, versus fixed income. So the older you get you can see that, that percentage shrinks.

But that's also one factor. I mean, there's other factors to consider. Like, if you are somebody who doesn't plan on retiring.

Right? Or is healthy and sees your retirement age is not for, you know-- on average, is maybe 10 years above where everyone else is going to retire. Or you own your own business.

So you don't really have to worry about unemployment. Those might mean that you can be a little bit more invested in stocks. You know, I think that sometimes we confuse retirement, with our retirement age, with when we should stop investing age.

And the truth is, when you're 65 let's say, on average, and you're retiring-- yeah, you're going to probably start tapping your 401K at that point. But not depleting your 401K. So you'll start withdrawing whatever percentage is right for you.

But the rest can stay invested. Not all of it. But you can still stay, I'd say, 30% - 40% invested in stocks given your age.

And then, you know, reducing that as you get older. Very interesting. Now a bit of a change in topic.

But it's something I wanted to talk to you about. So your book-- correct me if I'm wrong-- is called, When She Makes More. Yes.

Tell me about that. It's a provocative title. Yes.

So, When She Makes More, is a book that was born out of me wanting to write a book for women that had something to do with money. But I was like, OK, there's a lot of great books out there already for women and money. And I wanted to sort of take the conversation to a place where it hadn't ever been before.

And I remembered with something that my English teacher once told me, which was write what you know. And I know very well what it's like to be the breadwinner in my marriage. And I also felt that this was something that I couldn't just casually talk about with people.

That it was something that was actually a bit of a-- not between us, a point of contention-- my husband I-- but my mom had a real problem with this. You know, she was like-- Really? Why?

Well, I think that a lot of parents from an older generation who maybe had the very traditional marriage-- and also my mother and father were Middle Eastern, and so there is a cultural expectation too that he is going to take care of you. And no matter how much money she makes, that because women have the babies, that there is probably going to be a need-- the perception is that there might be a need for her to step out of her career to take care of the kids for a while. Which happens.

And so if you're the breadwinner, and you're not working-- to take care of your kids for even if it's just three months, four months-- what happens to the household? You know, there was a sense of insecurity that my mom thought was going to transpire. And I was like, relax, you know, whatever mom.

And we actually had a-- it was problematic between the two of us because we could not see eye to eye on this. And then I just thought, why is this so difficult? And I cannot be the only person that's experiencing this.

And that the experiences and the complexities that couples face when she makes more are very all over the place. There's couples that have said to me-- men have said, I feel emasculated, women feel resentful, they don't know how to communicate around this. Money is already a point of challenge for many couples, and then you add to it this additional twist, which is she making more, which is not-- culturally, still-- we think we're a very progressive country, but when we study people, and we ask them, who should be at the helm of finance in a relationship?

Most Americans, men and women, say it should be the guys responsibility. So there is this cultural patriarchal expectation that he is going to necessarily be the sort of provider-- financial provider. And when he is not, there is this feeling of like, what is my purpose?

How do we make this work? And I wanted to tackle all that because I thought, here's a lot of stuff that no one's talking about or answering. So for me it was really, one, a personal exercise in trying to find answers for my own relationship, but through that apparently helping a lot of other women and men as well.

Did your husband take the lead in a lot of the child rearing? We were very much, and still are, a team. I would say that to the extent that he could take time off work, he did.

I work for myself, versus he works for an employer, so a little different in terms of our capacity to be home. But one of the things I recognized early on in my post becoming a mom-- and this is important for everybody-- I think you have to rewrite your rules in your marriage as it seems fit for the needs of the family at that point. That you can't expect that, like, well, you got married, and you had all these expectations, and then your life changed.

Your finances change. Your family changes. Well, you have to change, sort of like, the way that you provide in the marriage.

And that shifts. And it evolves. And it's a constant dialogue.

And that's like kind of rule number one. Because a lot of couples don't even discuss it because it's uncomfortable. And then that brews resentment and confusion.

And there is more likelihood for divorce when a woman is making more in the relationship. OK. So that was also why I wanted to write the book and help these marriages.

But to your question, I recognized that for me to be able to kind of get back into my career at the pace that I was at now with a child as well, that my husband and I had to sort of redefine our roles in the marriage. And one of the opportunities that women have that we don't exercise enough is asking for help and telling our spouses how they can be the most important person in our lives. We forget that.

And so I told him, what would really make a huge difference is if we could change our hours. Like our hours for working. Like if you could maybe go to work earlier in the day but come home earlier so that I could work later.

It would make the world of difference. Because I was trying to get everything done in the six hours that I had between like, childcare coming to my house and my-- and then leaving. And it wasn't enough.

It was proving to be not enough. Because also like, yes, I work from home and maybe that should mean I have more flexibility. But I had a lot of work too.

Yeah. And just because you do that-- so I think that, that one shift of having my husband be able to come home at 4 or 5 o'clock, and then we can make a game time decision like, who's going to be with Evan? And who can go back to work?

Sometimes it was him. Sometimes it was me. But I needed that flexibility as opposed to, like, those two hours of just being me with the child-- by the time my husband got home I was spent.

And I would lie to myself and say, oh, I'll just pick up the work when Evan goes to sleep. And I was basically a basket case by the end of the night. Like I just-- tired, emotionally strained, all of it.

So I knew that I had to maximize the work day. And the way that I could do that was to make sure that my partner had a schedule that kind of was in sync with me. Yeah.

I think it's interesting. I always like-- I don't know if you ever see these-- they go around on Twitter a lot when they blow up on Reddit. Those like, "Our Relationships", or like, "Am I The Asshole?".

Those, like, subreddits where people are asking questions about their relationship to get a neutral take on it. And so many of them are women being like, my husband, literally, will go to the bathroom for an hour at a time to avoid, like, dinner time or bath time. And I'm like, oh, ladies, like, I would murder him.

Like, I would-- there's no way. And it's funny because I remember what-- it was always so jarring. I was a nanny and an Au pair for a long, long time.

So, full-time child care for people. And there were so many interesting dynamics in that because obviously the vast majority of the families I was working for were quite well-off. So that, in and of itself was just like, you know, a little bit of a, like, Darwinian study, and just, like, class dynamics and all of that.

But what always really stuck out to me was how culpable the mother always seemed around needing to have child care at all. Like, wanting to help me. Like, wanting to feeling very much like-- one of the women I worked for, she worked at home in a home office.

And she was constantly coming out and doing things. And they would always feel so apologetic if they were 15 minutes late. And just felt this really strong sense of, I'm so sorry that you have to do this.

And the husbands did not give a shit. They were like-- if they came home at 8:30 at night and, like, managed to, like, you know, put a little macaroni in the kids mouths, they were like, I'm the father of the year. And I was like-- and they just showed zero interest in-- not interest, but to them it was, like, well, of course we have a nanny.

Of course we have a night nurse. Of course we have this person who does the vast majority of the child rearing during the waking hours. And for the mother, it was always such a complex kind of relationship.

And I think that speaks so highly to what we tell men about being fathers and women about being mothers. As if for the man-- and this is obviously reinforced in the workplace. It's reinforced in their social dynamics.

That, like, them doing some of the basics of child rearing is like-- is exceptional, or doing a favor to their wife. So then, Chelsea, you flip that on its head, and you have the woman who's making more, who's still at the forefront of all that child rearing, and guilting, and all of it. And it creates a problem.

Oh, yeah. You know? It's solvable, I'd like to think.

But part of what has to happen first, is first of all, she needs to let loose a little bit. Just drop the ball. It's OK.

You don't have to double time with the nanny while she's there, or like, stop feeling so guilty. But he also needs to recognize that the child care is there for everybody, you know, everyone's benefit. And I can't stand it how often I hear-- or like, when women say, well, I left working.

I quit my job after I had a child. Because when we did the math my income was basically the cost of child care. And I was like, were you the only one who was benefiting from child care?

As far as I remember you were married and you had the husband. Right. So why not say that childcare is a percentage of our combined income.

It's less guilt driven at that point. It's less of like, oh, obviously, I have to quit my job at that point. Right?

Because everyone's benefiting. I think that that's really terrible math when we put it all on the women's response-- like, we so associate childcare with women in this country. Totally.

It's just unfortunate. And even, like you said, when they go to work, you know, corporate America is still very patriarchal. They don't realize that, like, a female executive might be the sole breadwinner in her family.

And so she inadvertently-- it's microaggression. It's like, she might not get the promotion because the boss thinks, well, the guy probably is the breadwinner, and she not. Does she really need it as much?

And I'm quoting actual things that have been told to my girlfriends when they go in for a promotion. And they're like, do you really need it? How do you not like, Cell Block Tango, and murder these guys?

Oh, my gosh. I hate them. But I think it also speaks to another really important cultural dynamic, which is the automatic prioritization of your professional work in the sense of that's where your real value is.

That's what you're worth to society. That's the most important job you're doing. That's how your value is measured.

And I think that the more we reinforce that idea of maximizing both parties ability to prioritize their professional lives, and minimizing the value of raising the next generation of human beings that have to take care of this planet, I think it's going to be inevitable that, that struggle continues somewhat. Because ultimately, if our biggest priority is how can women comfortably get to a place where they're putting in 65 hour work weeks, and we're outsourcing more and more and more domestic labor, we're only just repeating this dynamic where you essentially have one value driver. And in so far as your professional value is your primary value, well, what's the incentive for men to take on more domestic tasks?

What's the incentive for them to play a bigger role? Because they're not even taught to see that as a demonstration of real value. But I think that it's also important to recognize that in the 1950s, when there was almost always a stay at home parent-- mom-- that, that wasn't also ideal.

We have this perception now that we're not spending enough time with our kids because everybody's working. We'll, actually we're spending more time with our kids now. Did you know that?

You know, just because mom was at home doesn't mean she was out like playing with her kids. You know, she was probably cooking, and cleaning, and doing-- She was gone off some Quaaludes in the bathroom. I'm kidding-- 50s housewives.

I love this show. I love that we can just say whatever we want on the show. Oh, welcome.

But so, I don't want there to be this guilt-- especially for men or women-- that like I'm pursuing my career at the cost of being able to raise healthy children. Right. And that I don't think is necessarily the case.

And I don't think it's a denial thing. I think that if you look at the reality of a dual income household-- more financial stability in the household, more access to resources-- I just think about, like, our son who needs, like, occupational therapy. And you know, that's expensive.

Right. And so like, we wonder-- we're so grateful. We're like, imagine if we didn't have-- the state has very minimal funds.

Why we wouldn't have qualified for it. And so it's little things like that where I'm so grateful that we do have the income stability that we do. That neither one of us saw having children as a need to quit working.

I'm so curious as to what your advice in the book was, because I know you mentioned a lot of men report feeling emasculated by a woman earning more, which also just like, way to look a gift horse in the mouth, men. Someone's bank rolling your lifestyle. You don't free money?

You don't like free money? Exactly. What?

So what is your advice specifically for that? If a woman feels like her man-- aside from dump him, he's insecure. But if someone is with someone who they love, and who is a great partner on every level, but they feel this.

And maybe it's not even them personally feeling it. And it's like, my parents feel this way. It's their friends at work who are giving him shit.

You know? Right. Oh, what do you do all day?

You know? It's like a lot. Get bankrolled by my hot wife.

Right. Yeah. Living the dream.

Living the dream. Living the dream. That is truly the dream.

L-T-D. So I think firstly, you should feel like you can say that out loud. Right.

I feel emasculated. Or I don't know what to make of this but it doesn't feel good. Like, I think sometimes you feel these things that aren't politically correct, and so you don't say them, and then they bottle up.

And you know-- so give your partners the space to be emotionally free and to say these things. And as hard as it may be, to not have your first instinct be like, this is over. Like, you can't deal with me.

I'm the bomb. You know, like, you don't like free money? Yeah.

Take it in stride, you know. Sure. And understand that part of-- and ask him why.

You know, why do you feel this way? And not just assume. It's not your fault.

But it's because everything we talked about earlier, which is that we live in a society that does not celebrate this. OK? So you go to work, and it's not celebrated.

You go to Thanksgiving dinner, everyone's side eyeing you. Like how does this relationship work? You know, like, she makes more.

What does he do? That we place, exclusively on man, this expectation that you must provide, and only financially, because that's the only way you're getting rewarded in this culture-- Right. --and celebrated, and all of the things. And for women too, like they get-- I feel that when I go to dinner parties-- maybe not so much now, but like earlier on in our relationship when maybe I was one of the only women in my sort of peer group that was making more than her partner-- that when the bill came at dinner-- OK, well, now what do you do?

Like, do I put out my credit card because I'm going to pay? And probably that's where the-- like I have more money. Or is it him, because I'm worried that he's going to look like he's not taking care of me, or not a man.

You know what I mean? Like, this is a thing. This happens.

When the bill comes, all the men pay. But it's so chic when the woman puts down her credit card. Isn't it?

It feels chic. Mark's always like, hell yeah, baby. Like-- It's silly. --you buy me that dinner.

So I think that you need to redefine your purpose in the relationship. Right. And your metric for success as a partner in that relationship.

So look, you're not making more. And maybe you're not making anything because you've taken on the role as full time caregiver. So that is-- and I think women, we forget that at the end of the day, our partners, they want to be our heroes.

They want to be the most important person to us in our lives. So that's an opportunity for us to think about, OK, what sort of support-- and not just help, but what kind of accountability do I need from him so that I can thrive, and we as a couple can thrive. That he can feel successful.

And I can feel successful. And we can grow. So that you communicate it like that.

Like, you being the caregiver is like basically the most important thing that you can do for me in our life. Right. And just those simple words.

You know, that like it doesn't take a lot, you know, sometimes. But like the men need to hear that. Just like women need to hear that.

We need to be reinforced and reminded of like, the value that we're providing. But do remember that no matter who is the breadwinner in your home, you're going to need the right tools to manage your money. And one of the most important tools to managing your finances is something that allows you to get a higher level bird's eye view of what your finances actually look like.

Farnoosh and I are talking a lot about those big life moments-- things like buying a home, having a child, et cetera. And those are the times at which you are going to need the most nuanced idea of your overall financial picture. Things like your net worth, your debt to income ratio, your credit score, and how to improve all of those things.

And Intuit has a great free app called, Turbo, which gives you an amazing insight into all of those different indicators of your financial health. It's basically the perfect way to get a look at your own finances the way someone like a lender might look at them if you were doing something like applying for a mortgage. There are, of course, always going to be the day to day elements of the management of your money.

But sometimes you'll want that higher look when you're about to make a decision that demands a little bit more of that proactive planning. And making sure that your financial picture is in the best possible place before you walk into that lender's office. If you want to learn more about Turbo-- and do keep in mind it's totally free-- check it out at the link in our description or our show notes.

So one thing that I think is like a dynamic that-- this is often, I think, really a big issue and she earns less-- is the default assumption that the person who brings in less money should automatically be taking up most of the domestic work even if they're working hours are the same. Your thoughts on the matter. Well, I have a conflicting data point to that, which is that when she makes more-- she actually does more housework than a wife who makes the same or less.

This like is some-- Boo-yah! --weird-- I'm blowing your minds. --there's weird-- Because-- --gender dynamics going on in that. --Chelsea-- yeah, because she feels not super feminine as the breadwinner and so what does she do? Cuckoo. She starts to do more housework because that is what we've been conditioned to associate with femininity.

And so that's a fact. That's a study that was in my book. Yeah.

It's like lose-lose. My feeling on domestic work is-- there's a great book out right now called, Fair Play, by Eve Rodsky. It came out last winter-- or this current winter.

And essentially, it is a rule book for couples to not get to 50-50, or parity, with the housework-- domestic work. But for each person to feel like an equal player in the role of domestic drudgery, as I like to call it. But really, the common denominator in all of this is that we have to kind of assume that each person's time is equally valuable, regardless of what you're doing.

Whether you're a surgeon, or a teacher, or a stay at home parent, or whatever-- everyone's time is equally valuable. And so it shouldn't just be my job to do the laundry because I earn less. Like, come on.

That does not make any sense. Yeah. Luckily Mark and I both have fairly frivolous jobs.

Like neither of us are out here saving lives. So it's hard for one of us to have the moral high ground. Yes you are!

This is saving lives one paycheck at a time. If this has saved your life, I am sorry. Yes.

I think one of the dynamics that will often undergird that is that-- and this is a really like generalization-- but I think that on the average, if you take the average woman and the average man, the woman is probably going to be more into cleanliness, more organized, more aware of the domestic things that need to be done, and have like a-- like, I know that's the truth for me. My standards for domestic tasks are way higher. And I think it's also a question of, maybe finding with a partner, like do we necessarily need to like do a deep clean every week?

Do we need to do things this frequently or what have you? And not assume that anyone's relationship to domestic tasks should be the default. Yeah.

You know? I will say, though, that for me, cleaning is like such a cathartic experience. I love cleaning.

I do. I'm surprised when people don't. I don't know.

And some people will be like, you're just lying to yourself, Farnoosh. Like, you don't love it. Like, who loves to Windex a table?

And I'm like, I love it. It's so satisfying. There's so few things in life-- Yeah.

I like making my bed, which by the way, leads to better budgeting, I've read. People who are good at making their beds are good at life in general. If you make your bed every morning, you're basically starting off your day with a ritual discipline.

And I mean, come on, some mornings you don't want to make your bed. But I have this need to make my bed. It's like an addiction.

And I make it. And even if I just have 13 seconds to spare before I'm going to miss my subway or something, like, I do it. Even if I just have to like, fake make it, you know.

Right? Just like put the comforters on and the pillows. Because for me, it's like, it sets my day.

It's the last thing I see before I leave my house. I just want it to be neat. You know, it's so funny, this is like, such a point of contention for my husband.

I'm like, very domestically oriented, very clean, but I never make my bed in the morning. And Mark, he could live in squalor, but he cleans-- or he makes the bed every single morning. And it's like his biggest point of frustration.

Everyone has their point, you know. Like, I'm obsessive with the bed. Tim's obsessive with like, food.

If there's been anything in the fridge for more than like, two days, he's like, oh, we can't eat this. Well, that's just wasteful. It is!

Right? That's what I tell him. I'm like, you're not going to die.

Like, just because it says, good by February 10th, doesn't mean-- and it hasn't been opened. Those are scams, by the way. Supermarkets intentionally put them earlier than they actually are because they want to sell items faster.

I'm going to send him that Financial Diet video. And make people by more food. Chelsea said-- It's true. --it's a scam.

Also, let's be honest. Something's a little bit starting to turn that boost the immune system. You've got to get a heartier constitution.

I've eaten some questionable leftovers and I'm better for it. So I'm curious in your experience, were you making more than your husband before you had children? Yes.

And that carried through to after? Yes. Which I will say it was probably beneficial to us in the sense that there was not a twist.

You know, like, we kind of started dating with that-- Surprise. --expectation. Well, because I think it's harder for couples where-- and maybe it was he was making more, and then he lost his job. Like, it happened to a lot of families during the recession-- the last recession.

We called it the mansession. You know, because a lot of the jobs where there was more male employment-- things like real estate, finance, construction, manufacturing-- a lot of those jobs diminished. Therefore, leaving men scrambling to find work.

And women who may have been working, or were not, were kind of pushed back into the workforce in a bigger way. And that dynamic for a lot of relationships continued, where she was now taking on more of the financial breadwinning. And he was taking maybe more of a role, domestically.

And that is hard for some couples. Because you go into sort of this one expectation, maybe you're a little bit older, and now you're not the breadwinner, which was all that you were kind of sort of celebrated for. You know?

Right. And now-- And how-- you viewed yourself. --like don't have a sense of self. Self-worth equals net worth, you know.

I'm sure you've talked about that. Totally. I feel like a lot of people in relationships, in general, I think, don't really take the time to-- I mean, obviously we know that most people don't have very serious financial conversations before marriage.

Most people don't have prenups. Most people don't-- I don't even think most people really speak honestly with their partner about where their sense of self-worth and value lies, and what's really important to them. And I think that it's not necessarily wrong for a man to associate his value in a relationship with his ability to provide.

And if that is something that he feels, like, listen, I have just had this ingrained into me too deeply, and it would just really destabilize me in this relationship. If that's the truth for him, sure, but I feel like you should know that before you marry the person. Yes.

Yes. Like I feel like that's a valid conversation to have. Yeah.

And I feel like when I was dating, maybe I hadn't had that honest revelation with myself beforehand, but it was there. And I will say that I feel like the man in that situation, where I definitely source a lot of my sense of achievement in life from my work achievement. And I just knew that, like, if I get married, I'm not slowing down.

Like, that isn't happening. I don't care how much he makes. You know, it's like, I'm obsessed with my job and my career.

And yes, I want kids. And yes, I want a full life. But I am not planning to, nor want to, sort of opt out, which is where I saw a lot of my girlfriends do.

And in some cases that's what they wanted to do. But in some cases it wasn't. There's too many women that are feeling forced out of the workforce because childcare is too expensive.

And then they get married and they're not making-- they don't love their jobs. They like them, but they don't love them. I hear that from a lot of stay at home moms.

They're like, well, I didn't really love my job. Plus, I wasn't making that much money. So here I am.

And not very happy either not working. Right? So I feel like you really need to know a lot about yourself before you start to commit to a relationship.

Because that will ultimately determine so much of your happiness. If you're with somebody who is, just like you, places so much emphasis on their career and their net self-worth-- you know, it's not to say that I can't work out, but if you also want kids, you know, it's going to complicate things a little bit. Because then who is going to slow down?

Somebody has to kind of quote, unquote, "slow down a little bit", for a little bit of time. Not like completely opt out, but like, maybe assume more of the other big stuff in your life as opposed to the earning. It's interesting-- I have a weird number of friends-- well, weird.

I don't know. Enough that it's become a data point in my life. Women I know who are, themselves, somewhat ambivalent on having children, but whose husbands are very, very, we're going to have kids.

Yeah. I get it. And I'm like, OK, but-- one of them, in one of the cases, she's like, well, he's absolutely, you know, we're having kids, but he would be a stay at home dad.

He would? He would. He's like very open to that.

And also has a job that's a lot more amenable to having children. So I'm like, OK fine. Like, that's fine.

Yeah. But in a lot of cases-- OK, but is he going to take the vast majority of the hit financially, professionally, domestically? And I think for a lot of people the answer is no.

And I feel like, when you start from a more like, zero based presumption of child care is not automatically the woman's responsibility, then you could maybe have a more productive conversation about like, OK, if this is really that important to you, then you should be more prepared to make some of those sacrifices. But I think a lot of people are just genuinely afraid to even broach that conversation because it feels so taboo. Yeah.

And I understand where your girlfriends are coming from. Because, yeah, the odds are much more stacked against women when it comes to your ability to maintain your financial and career freedom once you have children. You know, it's just-- like we've talked about it.

Like, companies don't appreciate, nor recognize, that just because she's at your company working doesn't mean that she's being taken care of. Right. Or that she can take four months off work and her family will survive after she has kids.

Or that she necessarily has enough money set aside for private childcare. So women, I think, have a lot more to have to measure before they have children. What do you think of the phrase, having it all?

Eh. I definitely feel like I have it all in phases. You know?

I think there's having it all. And then there's doing it all, which I don't like to do. Which I think-- it'd be sort of feel like, we can't have it all because that means you have to do it all.

No. You know, having it all-- it got really annoying there for a while, that phrase. Right?

That was like the era when like every female focused brand had a like-- It was every power empowerment conference. --it was like a woman with a briefcase and a Martini and stilettos. And I was like, who is this lady? Yeah.

I think that we have evolved, hopefully now, to a place where we can still say that without getting side eyed because we've now gotten to a place where we can self-defined it. And it's not necessarily that poster that we all know and got really sick of, which was like the power suit, and the coffee, with the Baby Bjorn in front. You know, it's like, relax.

Like, that's not everyone's dream life. Some my girlfriends never want to get married, never want to have kids. Are they not having it all?

I beg to differ. Oh, totally. But I think it's really, really difficult for a lot of people to-- and not just women-- I think it's difficult for a lot of people to say, something is going to have to go in order for me to do all of the other things in the way I want to do them.

And to really be honest with themselves about what that thing is. Yeah. But because I think we're so focused on that moment in time.

Right. You know? Like, your life evolves.

It's a continuum. Totally. You know?

And so right now, you know, can I go and have brunch with my girlfriends every Sunday? No. I wish.

So my social life is kind of, eh, right now with my girlfriends. But I, on the other hand, have two gorgeous children that take up a lot of my time. But that's OK.

And that's what my life requires of me right now. And by the way, I designed this life. Yeah.

You chose it. You cannot blame yourself and be all poo-poo about your life because, ah, some things aren't adding up. Because I know that the most amazing thing about my life right now is that when it's good, it's good because of me.

And when it's bad, it's bad because of me. Like, it's not because some ugly boss is like, where have you been? You're not at work yet.

You know? Like, I decided 10 to 11 years ago that, that was not a life for me. And it was hard in the beginning making that transition, but it has paid off.

And so you take the good with the bad. But at the end of the day if you know that, sort of, you're in control and you've designed it, you can't be upset with yourself. You've got to be really appreciative.

Totally agree. We have a lot of people who ask questions about when they're preparing for a big life choice-- buying a home, moving, you know, changing jobs, having a kid, what have you-- they feel really paralyzed about how to financially prepare for that. Yeah.

Even down to the simplest, like, where should I put my money? Like what should I-- so obviously, you're someone who's made a fair amount of those big life moves. How did you prepare?

And how do you recommend people prepare for them? You prepare. OK.

You don't just say prepare, and then not prepare. I think that we say, I gotta prepare. But then what you're really just doing is procrastinating and paralysis.

My thing is like, you're not going to have all the answers, but you can figure out the math at the least. You know? You can do a little bit of math homework and figure out like-- they say, you know, a child costs a quarter of a million between 0 and 18.

You don't need all that right now. But what do you do in the first year? Like what do you need financially, and also logistically, in the first year to thrive?

And maybe just go through the motions. Because frankly, who thrives in the first year? Right?

You're just sort of like trying to stay sane, get some sleep, and not go broke. The first year of having a kid. The first year.

Yeah. There's a lot that goes on with that first year, especially. Because you're learning so much.

And if you don't have support it's especially difficult. So more than just the-- equally as important as the money is also like, what is the ecosystem that I'm creating that can support this new addition in my life-- this human, this child that I'm solely responsible for. And so part of that homework is talking to other parents.

And figuring out what your work provides in terms of child care leave. And maybe there are some subsidies. I don't know.

Some companies are more generous than others when it comes to like, helping you with childcare, and helping you even with like, your stroller and all the extras that go along with raising a child. Have a big ole, you know, baby shower. Just tell everybody to give you stuff.

And they will. Like, when I find people are having children I cannot-- I'm like, great, can I bring my U-Haul next weekend because I've got so much stuff for you. And so, that's children.

I mean, you're not going to have all the answers, but I think if you do prepare and you give yourself time, like whether that's-- give yourself at least a year to really understand the realities. And if you don't like certain things about the current conditions-- that you can have that time to change. Maybe find a new job.

Or change your hours at work. Or move to a different neighborhood that is just more child friendly. Maybe closer to your parents, closer to a sibling, closer to another friend that has a kid.

You could do a child share-- a nanny share, or something like that. Because I can say, like, money helps for sure. But what we often don't think about is the logistics of having children.

Like, just how am I going to go to work in the morning and be sure that my child's in a safe place before I go to work. Right? You know.

What about buying a home? Same thing. I mean, we're in the process of buying a home.

We just made an offer on a house today. That's so exciting. Crossing fingers.

Woo. I think that again, you can do some reverse engineering here as well, and starting with the math. Like, where are the homes that you're looking to buy?

How much are they on average? Start really getting granular about it. Like go on Zillow or all the other sites and actually look at what some homes sold for in the last six months, or the last year.

You can actually do that. You can go as far back, I think, as two years, and see how much homes sold for. And, you know, things you will need at close-- a down payment, closing costs.

And down payment in New York, it's at least 20%. And some of the more competitive markets, they want 20%. In other markets maybe you can get away with 10%.

But at that point I wouldn't know. I mean, the market is so volatile sometimes that you don't ever want to get in a situation where you don't have enough equity in your home that if it drops in value, and you have to sell it, that you're not underwater. So we saw so many people that happen to them because they took on these like 0% down homes.

And like, no. It's a good thing to have some equity in your house. And look, I was just having a conversation the other day with someone who wants to buy a home.

It was actually a real estate agent who's like, I'm having a hard time like, educating my first time buyers on how to save. And sometimes you just have to get really uncomfortable for a big financial goal. You have to move in with your parents.

You have to live on just one person's salary. Try that for six months. If you're in a partnership-- what if we just saved one person's income for six months, and try to live on, as much as possible, the other person's income for six months.

Or we moved in with family. Or we just elongated our timeline. So we wanted to buy this year, but maybe it should be next year, because you know, it takes time to save.

Or we change where we want to move to. Maybe if you're just looking for the starter home, you don't have to go to the expensive neighborhoods with the fancy schools. You can go somewhere else that's still growing, where you can still get a-- not saying that your primary home's an investment-- but where homes are-- prices are still going up.

And you can get in now, and maybe stay for a few years, and sell with more than what you paid for. And as far as, at what point people would want to move their money into something like a high yield savings account? How far out do you think?

I think immediately. I don't think you want to put your money for a home in the stock market. You know, anything that you need in the next five years you want to keep relatively safe and predicted.

So you could put it in a high yield savings account. If you know that you don't need it for the next year or two, you could try like, a flex CD. I like flex CDs because there's no penalty in taking the money out, but you can still bank on that higher rate.

What are the average returns right now on a flex CD? I think depending on your deposit. So if the more money you put in, chances are, the more you'll be rewarded.

But I think up to 2%. 2.1% I've seen. So edging out inflation. Yeah.

Well, the time has come, you guys. It is time. How did we do?

We did amazing. And it is time for our world famous-- Oh. --finger lickin good rapid fire question. What is the big financial secret of your industry?

And let's say, financial journalism, for that industry. Woo. That we all have our finances together.

Spill that tea, Farnoosh. I mean, maybe not-- no one I know-- that I know well. But I think-- what I'm thinking about, when we're starting out.

Did you ever see that movie with Isla Fisher where she was like the financial journalist and then she had all that debt? No. Oh.

Confessions of a Shopaholic. Confessions of a Shopaholic. Oh.

No. But I should watch that. Yeah.

So I feel like that's kind of true to life. When you're in your 20s-- I mean, I was a financial journalist in my 20s who was working her way out of debt. You know?

So-- Consumer debt or student debt? All of it. Nice.

A nice diversified portfolio of debt. Mmm-hmm. Yeah.

What do you invest in versus what are you cheap about? I invest in childcare. You know, I have an amazing nanny.

And some weeks, when I know she's just been extra helpful-- like she's always helpful-- but sometimes like, she brings breakfast for the kids. She just loves them. I mean, she's been our nanny for like almost six years.

I pay handsomely. You know? I'm just like-- Is she on a salary?

Yes. Yes. I like to treat the people in my life who make my life easier or better.

And there's really no price I can put on that. And so I always say, invest in your people. Keep them close.

Appreciate them because good help is really hard to find. And then what do I cheap out on? Let's see, wine.

I don't like to spend a lot of money on wine. That's so funny. I like a nice-- like I think, $15, $18 is like the most I want to spend on a bottle of wine.

Is that cheap? That's not that cheap, actually. I mean, I'm not two buck chucking.

Cheap to me is like -- I'm not like, Yellowtail, my days are gone. But you know, the other brands, you can find some really good-- You know what's so funny? We're like the exact opposite.

My child care budget is $0, but I love to buy really, really beautiful wines. When you go through as much wine as I do you got to get on a budget. What has been your single best investment, and why?

I was at a conference the other day and I said-- this question came up-- and I said, my husband. Aw. Tim.

Precious. Screw you kids. You're not the best.

I don't give him an allowance or anything. That's not what I'm trying to say. Like you say, investment.

But I feel like, who you select to be your life partner is a big choice. And it's a big move. And you know, a lot of times, it's a leap of faith.

Because you think you know them, but you never know. How long did you guys date before you got married? We dated for about 6, 7 years.

But I met him as a 19-year-old in college. He was a year ahead. And I'm not, woo-woo.

Anyone who knows me, I'm like, I'm very practical. I come from-- like, my family, they're all scientists. We're like super nerdy people.

We're are very straight line. Must have like-- a plus b equals c. But I met him, and I feel like my body just like kind of did a thing.

And then I was really drawn to him. Maybe it was just the hormones. But I was really drawn to him.

And he was just such a lovely nice young man when I met him that I said to the universe one day, I was like, I'm going to marry him. I don't know how it's going to happen, or when it's going to happen, because we were not even dating. We were not even like, you know-- but I mean, I liked him.

And I had a secret crush on him. But it wasn't until seven years later that we reconnected on AOL Instant Messenger. Oh my gosh.

The away messages there must have been during those [INAUDIBLE] times. Yeah. We had AOL in college and we had used that in our class project work to like, communicate after school and during you know, projects with each other.

So we kept our buddy names. And then it was like, years later-- That's adorable. --and we started chatting. And we're like, hey, what's going on?

And like, then again the room turned around, because I was like, oh my gosh. Like, the universe-- be careful what you tell the universe. But I think it worked out for me.

So I guess I'm going to start yelling to the universe a lot of things. I know. I also called my best friend the night I first went out with Mark and told her I was going to marry him.

But-- See. --I was unhinged, and I probably said that about several people at that time. No. I was high on education.

Yeah. No. I was-- yeah.

That's a great story too. Yeah. She probably-- she was like, again Chelsea?

How many dudes are you gonna marry? I was embarrassed to-- did you tell your husband this until much later? I-- oh no, I was-- I think I told him pretty early on.

I said, I love you, like a month before he said it back to me. He did not want to date me at first. I literally chased him down and forced him to be in a relationship with me.

He printed out this whole like, book of all of our initial conversations. And there were like, I mean, like reams and reams of messages of him being like, I really don't want to be in a relationship right now. And me being like, we don't have to be.

See maybe you just have to wear him down some times. I just completely wore him down. That's hope for everybody listening.

But now-- Just because he's ghosted you doesn't mean it's over. --look at us now. Oh. He ghosted me.

And I was like, you will not ghost me. I'm going to marry you. And I did.

Oh. What has been your biggest money mistake and why? Oh, my biggest money mistake was buying a used car from my dad.

From? Or for? From my dad.

Wait. Your dad like, gave you a lemon? Like, I don't think he was out to get me, but this car just was such a lemon.

So he had this car-- and by the way, my parents live on the west coast now. I did not grow up on the west coast. But they lived on the west coast at the time, and still do.

I live in New York. So I had to like transfer this car over to New York. And when it got here, like, all the tires blew out because the altitude, or whatever-- the climate was different.

I had to get all new tires. And I feel like every inspection, and every oil change, there'd be like another $3,000 problem with this car. And I know cars are not investments, but this was the dumbest car I could have bought.

I should have just bought like a Honda. Did you ever tell your dad like, hey, what about you is completely screwing me with my dad? I know.

And I mean, he just laughs at it. I guess-- I know, thanks dad. Financially, I did pay for it too.

People would be like, well, if he just gave it to you, like, why do you have to-- you know, whatever. But I paid off his loan. And I took the car and I really regret it.

Damn, your dad took you for a spin there. He like, really conned you. I know.

What is your biggest current money insecurity? Current. Well, I'll tell you what, you know, my husband and I were talking last night about coronavirus.

And we have a case here in New York City now. And it's only inevitable it's going to spread. And he was like, how is this potentially going to impact your ability to work?

He has a remote-- he works in an office but he can work remote. I said, you know, 80% of my job is remote. But that doesn't matter because if the companies that hire me also shut down because of this-- so does that mean that all the contracts that I have are just going to get delayed and pushed back, and maybe our income is going to like, you know, pause?

And I have disability insurance, but I don't have coronavirus insurance. I don't have pandemic insurance. So this is a very new territory for a lot of us, where I don't remember in my lifetime where there was a state of emergency work shut down for an indefinite period of time.

Right? So how is that going to impact income, is something that we're not sure about, to your point of insecurity. So what we can control is what we're saving.

And so we're being really smart about this next home purchase, and how much, you know, we're going to do that, versus, maybe we could have bought a bigger house, maybe we go smaller because we want to keep more of that cash liquid. What has been the financial habit that has helped you the most? The financial habit that has helped me the most is automation.

Automatically-- I mean, how many times have you heard this? Love that automation. Automatically investing, automatically saving, automatically paying my taxes-- I just love it.

I mean, today I had to put in the mail a rent check, and I was like, this, please. I wrote into the office. I was like, do you have direct pay?

Like, come on. I cannot be expected every month to do this. I barely remembered the first month.

Yeah. Totally. You know?

What does being successful mean to you? And when did you first feel it? Oh, gosh.

I can tell you the moment I felt it. And I feel it in different ways at different times. But an example was, my son was-- he's going to be six-- but when he was only like four he started taking the bus.

You know, in the beginning, you're all like, you're crying, because you're just like, I can't believe this little person's getting on a bus. And like, you're waving at him. And you're just, that's it?

I'm just going to put my kid on a bus, and I'm just going to go? And I'm not going to be with him? Because I've never been in a moving vehicle without my child.

You know? So it was really important to me to be able to take him there, obviously, and bring him home. And even though we have a nanny who could have picked him up in the afternoons, like, in the beginning, I just wanted to be the one that was doing that because it was mostly for me.

But as you can imagine, 3:00 in the afternoon-- working parent-- typically you got a lot going on. But I was able to move my whole schedule around because of my desire to be at 3:15 at the bus stop for the first two weeks. And it really felt like-- it was a small, small example, but you know, it was, for me, a victory, you know, because I could do it.

And your son will remember that his whole life. And it's a moment. And it's like a thing that I'm still remembering.

And I knew that. I think as I get older I know now what are the things that are worth it, and not. You know, like, is this work trip going to be worth it?

Well, yeah, because it pays this much. Totally. Or, it's going to have this payoff.

Or, no, because it's three nights away from my family. And tomorrow, for example, is my daughter's birthday. I have to actually, unfortunately, travel.

But it's just one night. But I'll be there in the morning. And we're going to do a happy birthday in the morning before I leave and then I'll see her, you know, the next day.

But that was tough. But I feel like I have the ability to create that flexibility in my life. And that feels really successful to me.

Plus it's that age where the backpack is bigger than they are. Oh, yeah. And it's so cute when they come off the bus.

And then they're like-- they're waving to you. Oh, my gosh. And he would fall asleep on the bus coming home almost every day.

Because he just-- you know, the motion and everything. It was like, is he on the bus? Like, he's not coming out.

And the bus driver would be like, oh, yeah, let me go wake him up. Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you so much for being here, Farnoosh.

Oh, my gosh. This was a blast. I had such a great time.

Love this combo. Where can people find more of you if they want to? Well, I'm having a lot of fun on Instagram, lately.

Send me your questions there because I answer them on the podcast every Friday. So on Instagram I'm, @farnooshtorabi, and the podcast is, Awesome.

Be there! Were fun. Having fun.

Well, thank you for coming and we will hopefully see you again soon. Thank you. So, Farnoosh, talked a lot today about how one of the things that makes her feel most successful in life is her ability to have control over her schedule, and spend more time, more valuable time, with her children.

And that's a direct result of her being her own boss and having her own small business. Which, if that is something you're interested in pursuing yourself, or are already doing, you're going to want the right tool to manage. I, personally, have been running a small business for almost five years now, and the best tool that has completely changed how I manage the day to day financial needs of The Financial Diet has been software called, QuickBooks.

Basically, QuickBooks, gives you that really in-depth look at all of the ins and outs of your business's finances. Things like invoices that need to be paid, things that you're waiting to get paid on, managing your various categories of your expenses for things like analyzing your spending, and preparing for tax time. And QuickBooks provides a really nice, easy to understand, dashboard that you can see every time you log in that gives you a really quick snapshot of your various indicators of your business's financial health.

I used to try and manage TFDs finances by using a piece of paper and a pencil, or by using Google Sheets, and both of those were hot, hot messes. QuickBooks has allowed me to completely understand the finances of my own company, and help contextualize and visualize all of the day to day decisions I'm making that are important to my company's financial health. QuickBooks has changed my entire life as an entrepreneur, and I highly recommend you check it out if you're someone who has, or is aspiring to have, your own small business or freelance gig.

Check them out at the link in our description or our show notes. [MUSIC PLAYING]