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Duration:1:09:37
Uploaded:2020-03-19
Last sync:2023-02-01 02:30
Preorder Sarah Urist Green's book You Are An Artist: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/601958/you-are-an-artist-by-sarah-urist-green/

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S: Can you get the charger?

J: Yeah. We're live. Hello. We went live five minutes early because-

S: Oh!

J: We're very punctual people, and I hit the button when I didn't really mean to.

S: Hello!

J: Hi, everybody. Can we start with the wine?

S: Uh, yeah. Let's do that.

J: Let's do the wine first, and then we'll whine, "W-H-I-N-E," and then we'll-

S: Wine and whining. I'm sure nobody has ever thought of that joke.

J: And then we'll paint.

S: Okay

J: How are you?

S: Well, we finished our parenting duties about-

J: 45 seconds ago

S: (laughing) two minutes ago

J: Yeah, um-

S: We had some growing pains. Does anybody remember growing pains?

J: We had some growing pains. And I also think, like, it's just such a- I think kids process things a lot of times in their bodies. They process them very physically, and it's a really stressful time. There's a lot of disruption, and so I think some of that is getting processed physically.

S: Yeah, I think so too.

J: So it's um, yeah. Can we have the wine please?

S: Oh, sorry.

J: We're gonna introduce you to our wine this evening.

S: Did you select this?

J: I did . . . well so here's the deal. Sarah and I thought that we had plenty of wine.

S: We do.

Both: We do.

J: We do, but we didn't necessarily know for how long we were going to be in the house, so we're gonna be introduced to some parts of our wine collection that maybe otherwise we wouldn't have been introduced to, including this Les Deux Côtes.

S: Côtes.

J: Côtes.

S: No.

J: Maybe you should do it.

S: Any Frech speakers in the house?

J: Yeah I believe it's Les Deux-

S: Lex Deux Côtes

J: (simultaneously) Côtes.

S: No, you don't say the S. Côtes.

J: I think it's coat-ez

S: No

J:Hm, okay. Well, you did barely pass French in college.

S: (laughing) Barely? No! I'm proficient. I'm not an expert.

J: Sarah is proficient according to Columbia. So this is a syrah, is that correct? Can you paint with wine?

S: Can you paint with wine as paint?

J: I bet people have thought of that.

S: Oh sure. Yeah. It's a syrah.

J: Oh by the way, this is important -thank you for the super chat Chitown Tarot -and all of the super chat money will go toward Partners -well, I don't think I'm allowed to say a name of a charity- will go toward COVID-19 response in impoverished communities around the world.

S:(reads correct pronunciation from chat) Deux Côtes. Yeah that's what I thought.

J: Well, sure. I mean if you want to pronounce it-

S: Like Côte d'Ivoire.

J: The way French people do, but I was-cheers.

S: Yeah, cheers!

J: Cheers to you.

S: Yeah. I hope that you get a glass of something, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, that you enjoy.

J: I hope you enjoy it a little more than I enjoy this

S: Don says Sarah is right about the pronunciation. So... it probably needs to breathe a little bit. I don't know a lot about wine, but I do know that reds tend to get better or "open up" as they say.

J: Very drinkable

S: Yeah

J: That's my review. I wouldn't...

S: That's good. That's good.

J: I don't need a case of it.

S: Yeah. Sophie Doll? Is that really Sophie Doll?

J: Um, I don't know.

Both: Hi, Sophie!

S: If it is. So we are as discombobulated, I think, as a lot of you are and having a weird mix of, like, normal, quasi-weekend life.

J: Yeah

S: And absolute fear and tear...

Both: (laughing)

J: I have not felt at all today like I was having a quasi-weekend. I have to say.

S: Yeah me neither, but like the things that we're doing are quasi-weekend.

J: Well, the kids are home-

S: Yes

J: But the kids are also e-learning, so we're kind of overseeing some, you know, we're trying to take on as much of that as we can and to help the teachers. The teachers are being absolutely heroic in all of this, like, figuring out totally new systems.

S: Yeah, our son's fourth grade teacher today has a three-year-old child and she is expected to teach sort of three hour and a half segments during the day with a three year old in the house.

J: But she's making it work. She's great.

S: She, yeah because teachers are special people who are not like you and me.

J: Yeah well there's just, I mean, it takes such commitment to do that job. Such a sense of mission. Such a sense of vocation I think so.

S: Yeah

J: Yeah it's been a huge- Obviously, daily life has been disrupted I would imagine for most people and we're certainly conscious of the fact that the wars that our life has been-

S: Thank you Charlie Green and Allison DeVoe.

J: Tuataria said thanks for the shout out, John and welcome to a thousand new members in the last day.

S: Hey!

J: That's great. I mean, I'm really glad to hear that there's so many new members.

S: Sherm the worm

J: Yeah so I mean the reason we're doing this, and also the reason I was encouraging people to join Tuataria, is that I think-

S: Hello, Daniel Russo.

J: It's difficult to even get your head around the extent to which this is changing things for people very quickly, but I think that there's a real risk in becoming too isolated and not having ways to find social connection. Tuataria is a great discord. There's another nerdfighter discord as well where people are connected. There's the Life's Library book club, which you can join for free. You don't have to- you can pay, but you can also join for free and just get the books out of the library.  

J: And we just, you know Sarah and I have been thinking about how much people are gonna need connection.

S: Yeah, I was just talking with some of my old high school friends, and we were talking about you know the difference between being an introvert and an extrovert during this time. I was pretty sure I was an extrovert, but then this evening when our UPS delivery person knocked on our side kitchen door and motioned that he was leaving a package I got, like, this surge of joy to see another human and I got really excited. And I was like, "Oh, I am an extrovert."

J: Yeah. I mean but even if you're introverted you need social connection. You know, like, we're such an interdependent species and I think that's part of what makes this so hard. Our ways of gathering have been suddenly taken away from us.

You know, for those of us, like me, who live with mental illness, a lot of us rely on routines that we've built that help us to make our lives okay and, like, help us to get things done that we need to get done and o live a healthy way. And I think for a lot of us, those routines have been upset really quickly. Look, it's you can get your head around how this is affecting different people, and we are conscious of the fact we are incredibly privileged in all of this.

In fact, like, I think everybody you're gonna hear from with hundreds of thousands of regular YouTube viewers is incredibly privileged in all of this of course. I think what is universal about it though is that there is an experience of loss. Now, for some people, that loss is really, really terrifying and in some cases, many cases it will involve serious illness.

J: It's just really, really overwhelming, but my experience of it so far has been that it's really hard to have my routines taken away from me and the stuff that I rely upon to be well taken away from me. This is not a great- Global disease pandemics are not a great time to have obsessive compulsive disorder I would say, but we're trying to rebuild some of that stuff. We're trying to find ways to connect and trying to find ways to facilitate other people connecting so that you know that one, You're not alone and two, this is temporary. This is temporary.

This will end, we will get past this. We don't know how temporary it is, but it is temporary. This will end.

S: I will say, I have a hard time internalizing that though. Like, this is very difficult for me-and many people- to deal with psychologically because I don't know when it will end.

J: Yeah

S: Especially, I think, if you have small children in the house and the prospect that they won't be going back to school this year. And, you know, none of us know how long we're going to be trapped in our homes.

J: Yup

S: Obviously we can go outside, but I think it's the not knowing.

J: None of us know if we're gonna get sick. None of us know if someone we love is gonna get sick. None of us know when things will change. None of us- I mean, a huge percentage of people don't know whether their jobs are safe.

People's medical schedules have been interrupted. The dislocation is just tremendous, like, everyday I think of something else that is just so suddenly different. But this is the big I've ever lived through, and I think this is the biggest global challenge in 75 years, you know.

J:We have to get through it together. We have these tools of the internet that we haven't always used to build the healthiest communities, but I think we can-

S: Yeah.

J: I think we have at times done that. Lots of people are making suggestions for connections as well.

S: (pointing to chat) Oh, being a high school senior this year is the worst-

Both: Yeah, I mean-

S:There are so many disappointments.

J: But I don't want to minimize that disappointment because if you've had-this is something we talked about in Dear Hank and John this week- but if you've been looking forward to your high school graduation your whole life, you've seen movies about it, you've worked so hard for that moment, and then to be told one day, like, not only are you potentially not gonna have this graduation you've imagined, but don't come to school tomorrow. No chance to say goodbye. No chance to... I mean that's really hard. 

S: Yeah

J: That's a huge loss. Again yes there are, you know, other kinds of loss that are worse, but I just don't think comparing kinds of loss is a very productive enterprise.

S: No

J: So, yeah. Whether you're a high school senior or a college senior, it's heartbreaking. I will say this to spoil something on the pod, and hopefully I won't cry this time that I say it. I graduated from college late because... partly because I had whooping cough and partly because I had a mental-

S: I'm sorry, I don't mean to, I'm not smiling because that-

J: Because the whooping cough?

S: Yeah.

J: (sarcastically) It's the whooping cough that she's amused by but not the nervous breakdown.

S: No.

J: Whooping cough is such a disease I would get.

S: (laughs)

Both: Well.

J: You know another disease I would get?

S: No, I know, not funny.

J: Not as funny

S: But yes, you would. Any of us would.

J: So anyway, I graduated from college, and I remember being at the ceremony and seeing all my friends graduate, thinking how much it sucked that I wasn't up there and feeling like a complete failure, feeling like just an idiot, like a huge disappointment to myself and my teachers and everything.

J: Then when I did graduate it was in December, you know, so there was no, like, ceremony. What happened instead was that my religion professor, Professor Donald Rogan, he had a small ceremony for me in his home.

S: Aww.

J: And he gave me a, which I still have, he gave me a handwritten diploma on a piece of green construction paper. It wasn't the graduation I had imagined, but it was really lovely, and my hope is that for some of you at least you'll find ways, or the people who love you will find ways, to give you not the graduation you imagined, but still one that you can remember and look back on fondly.

S: Yeah. Anybody else eating probably stale generic Triscuits?

J: Yum.

S: From our pantry. We've got some mustard that was given to us in a gift basket.

J: Yeah, came in a gift basket. Gift basket mustard.

S: We're really digging deep into the pantry.

J: Yeah.

S: But we're fine.

J: Yeah, we've got-We stocked up. When we kind of- we're not like full preppers, but-

Both: (talking over each other)

J: We always have a few weeks of staples.

S: What's a prepper? "Prepper" has always been sort of like, for us at least, a funny term.

J: Yeah

S: Used in humor, but it's not funny anymore.

J: No.

S: No longer funny. I guess the only thing I can say is, like, it's really important, and this something that we've tried hard to do- not hoard. To not, you know, take stuff off the shelves that needs to be there. So that's why we-

S: Yeah

J: Bought all of our food five weeks ago. Yeah, so there's lots of recommendations in comments and in super chats about things to do and watch and ways to be with people.

J: Thanks again, I don't really know how super chats work, although I have bought a few in my day. We'll make sure all of the money, and maybe we'll send out a-

S: Shout out to Dr. Rogan.

J: Shout out to Dr. Rogan. I don't know that he was ever a doctor. He only called himself Professor Rogan, but I'm not sure. Anyway, we'll-

S: Let's give him a doctorate.

J: Let's give him a doctorate! Yeah!

S: He deserves one.

J: I mean, he's gone now, so, you know, I think from beyond the grave everyone's a doctor. But yeah, anyway, we'll let you know how much money this raised, but it'll all go to COVID-19 response in impoverished communities in the developing world where... You know our health system is about to be tremendously terrifyingly strange. In poor countries this strain will be of a level that many of us can't imagine.

I mean, I think Sierra Leone has four ventilators. We have 70,000, so it's gonna be a challenge for sure. Partners in Health has put together a really good COVID-19 response.

You can read it on their website. They've also-They're also putting together-

S: Susan, my friend Susan-

J: Oh there's your friend Susan!

S: -Is in the comments.

J: (reading the comment) Sarah's skin is like translucent velum.

S: (laughing) Thank you, Susan!

J: Ah, Susan. How you doin'?

S: Susan, I just spoke with her. I went to high school with Susan.

J: Susan was one of our bridesmaids.

S: Yes

J: I guess one of your bridesmaids

S: (laughing) Yeah. She was yours too.

J: She was one of my bridesmaids too.

S: She was yours too.

J: In fact, we found out we were- JJ I want to get to yor super chat- but we found out that Sarah was pregnant with Henry at Susan's wedding.

S: Just after!

J: Like the day after!

S: Yeah!

J: So, yeah, Susan, thanks for being here. I would imagine that things have- speaking of loneliness and isolation-

S: Susan is immunocompromised and has been self-isolating away from her twin five-year-olds.

J: Yeah.

S: And husband. And is finally back home tonight, so.

J: Oh good!

S: So.

J: Oh good! Say hi to the fam for me. JJ says my Kenyon tour was canceled because of coronavirus. Do you have anything I should know about Kenyon or any stories?

S: Oh.

J: Great question, JJ. So I'm actually, I think, gonna make a video for Kenyon about that because everybody's tour was canceled for accepted students, where I talk a little bit about Kenyon and how sorry I am that all your visits have been canceled. It's great. I loved it there.

J: I loved it a lot. It's VERY expensive, so I hope you have a good financial aid package, but I'm not an expert in how much higher education should cost, but it seems too expensive.

S:I've only been to Kenyon once-

J: Yeah

S: I mean the things to know about Kenyon are that it's a great school-

J: Yeah, great school. Great classes

S: It is rural.

J: It is rural.

S: A fun word to say.

J: Yeah. I mean that's what I liked about it.

S: That's what you'd liked about it. You liked that it was kind of an island

J: Yeah, I was going to college on a hill and my whole life was there. The rest of the world didn't really intrude. In fact, in some ways I have to say I'm a little bit nostalgic for that at the moment. But yeah.

Abby's Lent practice this year is to donate money to charity every year. I did not-

S: (clarifying) Everyday!

J: Everyday! I did not have an effective Lent. (sighs) Very ineffective Lent and I can't- I know that that's probably-

S: It's not too late

J: I know that's probably not why COVID-19 has spread throughout the world, but I have, like, had that thought a few times.

S: But we're- I know this self-isolating has just begun, but since Friday? When did we begin?

J: Kenyon has guaranteed to me 100% to demonstrated financial need. That's amazing.

S: Oh good!

J: I didn't know that. I'm not an expert!

J: Like I said, it was a great school, um yeah.

S: Yeah, but we've been speaking of Lent and practices.

J: Yeah.

S: We've been gratitude journaling or sketch booking with our kids every morning, which is something we would have never have been capable of doing on a normal schedule. It is-I finally see it, how it works, that it forces you into positivity.

J: Yeah

S: And even if it doesn't reverberate out all day, it still, the effects last. And then, if you know that you're going to have to do the gratitude journal you look for things to be grateful for throughout the day.

J: You do and you notice the things that you're grateful for a little more. They don't just, like, fly past you. You kind of sit with them for a little bit longer, and that has been really helpful for me, even when it's very, very small things.

S: Somebody said classic Catholic guilt right there, and who is the one raised Catholic?

J: I am an Episcopalian but I am very high Episcopalian, I mean it's not interesting to 99% of people. But I'm as Catholic as you can get and still be Episcopalian. I mean I just don't believe in all the Rome stuff. 

S: We shouldn't go there.

J: We shouldn't go there. You're right Sarah, we don't need to go there. Superchat drinking games-- yeah, no drinking games. In fact, I mean, yeah, we're, as you'll hopefully see, big believers in moderation. 

S: Are we?

J: I do believe in Rome. I shouldn't have said anything. 

S: You believe in Rome? Yeah, Rome exists.

J: I don't believe in all the Rome stuff. I think most people know what I mean. How are you doing with canceled church services? Well, our church is online now.

J: But we don't go that much anyway, so it's not that huge of a distraction for us. But the, I mean, this is another thing, whatever the way of...

S: John, did you see the two Popes?

J: I did, actually. It's a great example of how I love Catholicism except for the (drinks wine)

S: In theory

J: I mean I got married in a Catholic church, I have a ton of respect. 
S: Onward. What should we talk about?

J: Not religion. (both laugh) Yeah, I saw there was an earthquake in Utah today. I mean, enough already.

S: Well the normal horrors continued to go on with this one. 

J: This is one that Partners in Health talks a lot about in stretched healthcare systems that the real problem is that the chronic problems don't go away when the acute problems emerge. So like right now, in Indiana for instance, if you tear your ACL tomorrow, you can't get a surgical procedure to repair your ACL for we don't know how long. Some number of months, probably, because something we're pretty unaccustomed to in wealthier countries is the healthcare system getting overwhelmed. One of the things that somebody at PIH said to me recently, I'm talking about partners for health by the way, an organization that our community has worked with a lot over the last 10 years and is currently working with to build a maternal center of excellence to improve the maternal healthcare system in Sierra Leone. 

J: But one of the things someone at PIH said to me this week was that they feel like people in communities where they work have so much they want to share about their experiences of pandemics, whether that's the ongoing seventh cholera pandemic, or the HIV/ AIDS pandemic or the Ebola epidemic that ravaged West Africa earlier this decade, and they have a lot of things they want to share about mental health as well, how they kept their mental health while having to isolate. While having to isolate, while having to quarantine, to have their daily lives be severely disrupted when schools were closed. You know a lot of people who have had these experiences want to share what they've learned. It was a reminder for me that we often think about this stuff as a one-way street. That's like rich countries giving to impoverished ones. We all have a lot to learn from each other and with each other. 

S: Yeah, I mean more than ever do we need to be looking outside of our small boundaries for answers and ways out.

J: David, as far as satisfying the need for community while in isolation, we hope that this can be a little bit of it, or stuff like this. I also think you have to look to what you were passionate about 5 days ago and find communities to share that passion. That's why I was encouraging people to join a nerdfighter discord if they love this community. If you love the art assignment Sarah's going to be doing live shows where you all can make art together over the art assignment, and I'll be in some of those shows. 

J: If you love Liverpool Football Club, join a Liverpool discord or something. We've been trying to have virtual cocktail hours with our friends, we're gonna have a virtual cocktail hour with Rosianna tomorrow, which I'm excited about. Thoughts on Liverpool not winning the title? I think it's too soon to say that Liverpool hasn't won the title. (Drinks wine). 

S: So much has-

J: Just put no. I mean I love Liverpool, Sarah will tell you, a lot. I spend a lot of time thinking about Liverpool, the Liverpool fan community in Indianapolis is really important to me, the broader Liverpool fan community is important to me. Wimbledon fan community is really important to me. But I think in two weeks, when we begin to understand better the scope of the challenge we have in front of us, none of us are going to be thinking about football. 

S: No.

J: I think I'll be overjoyed when it's time to think about football again, even if it's just United fans making fun of us for not winning the title we were clearly going to win, while they finished sixth. See, that was my dig, I still dug at them. I still found a way. 

S: Okay. All of the disappointments are real. 

J: All the disappointments are real. We gotta start making some art. 
S: I mean I do think it's interesting 
J: I thought that person was asking "Are you both doing any new drugs?" and I was like
S: Did they ask that?
J: No, but I didn't see the actual question.
S: In terms of making art, "What is Sarah eating?" Uh, you know, generic stale Triscuits. 
J: How stale are they?
S: Uhhh, they're still, best by day is still in the future?

S: It's just that they've been open for a while. They're not great. 
J: You know what they taste a little bit like? They taste like stone wheat thins. 
S: It occurred to me as I was eating them
J: Can I get some mustard?
S: It's probably not appropriate to eat on the live stream. 
J: Why not?
S: Is it okay?
J: Yeah.
S: As I was gonna say, we're gonna make some art. I know art's my whole thing in my career, and my personal interest. As I've been talking to artist friends over the past week, the artists in my life, it's an interesting point, and they aren't saying this I'm thinking this when I talk to them, they are better suited for this and I think it's outside of visual arts, but writers and makers of all sorts who kind of close up regularly, not close up, but protect time to be on their own to make things, and not all art is made in isolation, a lot of art is made together or cooperatively. This is an amazing time to make stuff. I'm thinking about making a video right now because I'm having to reevaluate all of the videos I've planned because I can't travel to film anything. I think creativity is overrated.
J: Super overrated.
S: I think we all think we need to be creative to make stuff, and I think you just need to make stuff to make stuff. The only way out is through. If you want to make a drawing or anything

S: It's a psychological barrier that you have where someone told you, or you told yourself that you can't do it. 
J: Or you have to wait for inspiration to strike or whatever. 
S: I don't think you need inspiration. Having witnessed John write several works of fiction, you just have to get up and you do it. It's not always gold, sometimes you have to work with it to make it into something useful. I think now more than ever, I think making things can be a really fruitful and fulfilling way through this. 
J: I agree. Somebody asked for suggestions for college students that are going home to volatile home lives and their mental health is tanking. I think a lot of people's mental health is tanking right now, Savannah, you're not alone. I'm sorry that you're going through this, I'm sorry that you're having this rough patch. I hope you will reach out for help when you need it, but I think the two things that I would say are really important- and I've said this already in this live chat and I'm going to say this a lot in the coming weeks and months- this is temporary, this will end. There are a lot of problems in the world that are not temporary, but this one is. We are going to fight it together. I hope that shared sense of endeavor will give us some meaning. If it doesn't, what I have found is helpful is to find things to look forward to. Maybe you look forward to these dumb live streams, maybe like me you look forward to the evening when the new Dr. Benjy football manager video is uploaded because you've become a superfan of Dr. Benjy. That's what I recommend.   

J: Find something to love, and let it kinda guide you and carry you through. It's going to feel really long, it already has for me.
S: I feel like every day has been a thousand years. 
J: There's actually a Chinghiz Aitmatov novel that I read in college called The Day Lasts Longer Than A Thousand Years
S: Yes! That's what I've been thinking of. 
J: I'm thinking about it all the time because it's true. The day lasts longer than a thousand years. We need to start making something. But while you set up, somebody asked if I'm going to be at the first game of AFC Wimbledon. Hell yes. The day one I can be on a plane, I will be at the next AFC Wimbledon game. I wanted to ask, do you have a little setup you want to do to get us ready for? Or can you do it here? Why don't we describe what we're doing here then I'll talk about this Robert Frost quote that has taken on a life of its own. The story behind which is a little more complicated that what I've let on. 
S: What we're going to be making today is something we should have made a while ago.
J: Yep. Which is always the case with our work together. 
S: But can you talk about where this came from.
J: Sure, well people that donated to Project for Awesome, I don't really remember how this happened. 
S: We were making mystic pizzas.
J: And we finished making those.
S: And we really enjoyed making them. We made mystic pizzas, and I hope anybody who's here if they happened to purchase one has enjoyed it.
J: Or gets it soon, if you haven't gotten it yet.
S: We made them.
J: We made them. It's now DFTBA's problem.
S: So somebody suggested during the Project for Awesome Livestream.  that we make beans. 
S: What was the bean joke?
J: I don't remember. But it doesn't matter. We have to make cosmic bean paintings. 
S: Mystic bean.
J: Mystic bean paintings. 
S: In the Project for Awesome they called it the cosmic pizza because not enough people--
J: Had seen Mystic Pizza
S: Even within the company, were familiar with the film Mystic Pizza. 
J: Sarah is very focused on people calling these paintings their correct title. Me, less so.  So we're gonna make these bean paintings. And we don't know how it's going to work because we haven't made one yet.
S: Mystic beans
J: We're gonna make 10 of them, maybe not tonight, but eventually. And then we'll start making things together. God only knows what we'll do. Maybe we'll do those portraits that you've been doing that are incredible.
S: What portraits?
J: The incredibly beautiful portraits that you've been doing. 
S: Of?
J: Of me, the one that made me cry.
S: Oh, the one of the colors.
J: Yeah, that's what a portrait is. 
S: Yeah, I made John for his birthday where I made a grid of colored circles and each of the circles was something related to John. One was sort of a silvery-grey that was the color of your math book. 
J: It was a lot of things that were important to me.
S: Or like the color of our front door.
J: It was a portrait in the form of a color palette. Which was really lovely. Maybe we'll do those. We've got...time. So you're gonna draw a bean because it's way beyond my capacity.
S: I'm a little bit worried about the bean shape, because I feel like there might be something mathematical about the bean shape.
J: No, I believe that you can do it just by--
S: No, I'm gonna look it up. I'm gonna look up beans. 
J: I could do it.
S: No no no no. Well, you can do it. You can do it. Go for it. 

J: This is what I think a bean. I mean this is what I would associate with a bean.
S: Make it a big, large bean.
J: I know, I understand. So I am a gardener so I see a lot of beans. And I think they look approximately like this. I think they go like that, then this, and then they go like this, and then they go like this, and then they go like that. And this part is a little sketchy. 
S: That's a good bean
J: I mean no one can see it really, it's not a bad bean is my point. If I can do that, you can do a bean that is 12x better.
S: I'm going to work on your bean.
J: Sarah's going to try and improve my bean. 
S: I think it might be a little bit exaggerated. 
J: This is collaboration at its finest. While I tell you about this Robert Frost quote. "The only way out is through" is a Robert Frost quote that I really love, I think I used it in my book, Looking for Alaska, and it kind of 
S: And you just used it in your video
J: Yes, I just used it in my Tuesday video. It's kind of taken on a life of its own. Like the other day, I saw someone with a tattoo that said, "The only way out is through." The thing about this quote, first off, I liked it a lot, I think it's very true, I think the only way out is through. The thing about the quote is that it's not clear that Robert Frost ever said it. 
S: So where did it come from?
J: The attribution I've seen most often is that in a classroom, Robert Frost wrote it on a chalkboard. The other attribution I've seen is when asked what the way out of difficulties in life or something like that is Robert Frost answered through. 
S: Well we invoked it a lot during my pregnancies.
J: And childbirth especially. Childbirth is truly the only way out is through. 

J: Um, and so--

S: No matter how the baby comes out.

J: And so we, um, so we did that. We worked on, um, yeah... we've used it a lot in our family and then I've used that quote a lot in my own, um-

S: Everyone's very impressed with your bean drawing. And I have to say, John, I think it's very good.

J: It's because I have looked at a lot of beans, because it's the only thing I can successfully garden. 

S: But you know what it is? It's your lack of fear of drawing a bean. You had the confidence to just do it. 

J: Yeah, you have improved the bean. Um, so this is Sarah's--

S: No, I--

J: No, well, she's not done.

S: I'm not done.

J: Um, so yeah, I don't really, I don't know for sure--for sure, for sure, for sure--that Robert Frost said that. And if he didn't, pfft, then I should have credited myself. *laughs* What should we name our baby? Uuuummmm...

S: Hmmm... what are your ideas?

J: I feel like I don't have a-- I feel like we shouldn't--

S: No.

J: We shouldn't name your baby. I- Sarah and I asked the president of the United States, at the time, to name our baby.

S: The former president.

J: And he deferred, um, and at the time I was like, "Oh, that's such a politician's answer" but now that, like, I have a kid, I'm like, "Oh, I'm really glad President Obama didn't name my kid. So he was, like, seeing into the future, I think. Um.

S: Although if somebody-- No, I'd probably not do it. If a friend-- If a friend presented two names...

J: Yeah

S: ...and asked me to choose between them, I would vote.

J: I would tell my preference, especially if I had a strong preference.

S: Name the bean. 

J: Oh, I guess I'd name the bean Eleanor. *Sarah laughs* Which was our other name for Alice. Um...

S: But she's an Alice.

J: Yeah. *pause* Yeah, so anyway, thanks to everybody who super-chatted. We'll make sure all of that money goes to, um, Covid-19 response in, um...

S: I heard somebody say, name--

J: ...impoverished communities.

S: Name your baby something that you can spell. But, eh, that's so relative.

J: Yeah, Naya already pointed out Obama was already a father so he knew.

S: He knew.

J: And that's totally right! That's totally right.

S: Yeah, yeah.

J: He was like, "You don't want me to pick your baby name. You think you do, but you don't."

S: Actually, it was our second child, so... *holds up bean drawing* I think we're getting there. 

J: That's Eleanor Bean.

S: Yeah...

J: That's a good bean, Sarah. We should-- We need to paint that bean.

S: Mmmmm...? Well we need to come up with, like, the "er"-- 

J: By the way, if you want to know--

S: --the "er" bean that I can, uh, create a template for.

J: But do you wanna know why it's taking us so long to make all these mystic bean paintings? It's because Sarah and I have a very different approach to mystic bean paintings.

S: But we want them to be good!

J: You-- you want them to be good. 

S: Yeah. 

J: I want them to be done. 

S: *laughs* See, together--

J: I have a--

S: Together we get it done. 

J: Together-- That's so true. Together we, like, end up in the right spot. Like I'm a big believer in better done than perfect, and Sarah's a big believer in better perfect than done. 

S: Well, I do....

J: And together we get there. 

S: Yeah, I've come a long way. 

J: Yeah. 

S: On that front.

J: Yeah... yeah, well, okay. Whoa, whoa, why are you shaving off that corner of my bean?

S: Cuz it's too fat.

J: I don't agree. I have to say I think that you--

S: Beans are more slender than you think. 

J: Okay. Well I also think it depends on what kind of bean. So this looks to me like a... like a dragon's tongue bean. Or a, um...

S: *laughs* You know... the commonly known dragon's tongue bean.

J: Or a, uh...

S: Just let it go. 

J: A black-eyed pea, maybe.

S: Yeah.

J: Um, I was thinking more of a lima bean type of bean. But anyway, we can move on. Um, Eleanor Rigbean.

S: Ooooohhhhh!

J: I can't believe we didn't get there.

S: Oh my gosh.

J: And that's so good. That's, that's--

S: Eleanor Rigbean.

J: It's so good I'm gonna have more of "two côtes." What does "côte" mean in French, my beloved...

S: Coast.

J: The two coasts.

S: Yes! Les Deux Côtes.

J: Well, what two coasts is it between? Let's read about it. 

S: The-- the

J: Oh! Les Deux Côtes is crafted from-- I know, my French accent is good.

S: Uuughhh!

J: --from the two main "terrors" within--

S: Terroir

J: --within Crozes-Hermitage--

S: "The lands." Ter-

J: --rocky and filtering alluvial terraces.  Oh, come on, guys. Come on. I mean, people who make wine... it's great that they care about something.

S: "Will you two ever do Art Cooking together?" You've participated.

J: I have, I was in the art cooking... Frank O'Hara

S: Yeah!

J: ...but my poetry reading got cut, which... it's hard not to take that personally.

S: Well... I think-

J: But it's true, Paige and Kava were better than me.

S: Yeah, they were. Okay

J: It's not my fault that I was up against Paige and Kava.

S: I'm happy with this bean, I'm gonna get some tracing paper, I'm gonna be right back.

J: Okay

S: Because we don't want to have to do this again and again

J: Yeah, I don't disagree. I think I might read you guys a little as long as you promise not to, like, release it on a, you know... what is it called? The internet?

S: What?

J: Oh, do you know what my password is?

S: Where are you going?

J: Well I was just going to read while you're paint-, while you're drawing

S: No

J: You wanna keep- you wanna just keep talking?

S: Let's just keep talking.

J: Okay, I just didn't know how distracting, i didn't know how much of your focus you needed to make the work, you know?

S: This is transfer paper

J: Okay

S: You ever seen this?

J: I have, but only cause I'm married to you. And so, give us a basic sense of how it works.

S: Well, it's like an old-school, like, the pre-xerox. The mimeograph.

J: Everyone's mad that I'm not reading now. But it's my fault.

S: Oh, no, read.

J: No it's okay

S: You don't have your-- this is my computer

J: I know. I'd have to read from my phone. I'll see if I can bring it up on my phone.

S: Yeah... alright.

J: Yeah, so this is like, nineteenth-century technology

S: haha... twentieth

J: Yeah, I just think we're in a time when, um, if you have a story you should be sharing it, no matter what, um... Oh yeah, I mean, I don't know...

S: This is good TV

J: Well, I don't know how long you have. I'll read this, just don't release it or anything, I don't want to get in trouble. Um, but this is a little -- I have been working on a story,  I have a long way to go, like, pfft, five years? Although maybe now seven, because Sarah and I both spend half the day homeschooling, so our number of work hours per day has been cut it in half, is that safe to say?

S: It's more like...at least. Yeah.

J: Yeah, at least in half, maybe more. Oh, so you're not gonna use the mimeograph paper.

S: I am, first I have to trace it, so I have tracing paper

J: Okay

S: You read

J: Okay, I believe you. Um, yeah, so this is about to kids who are in a movie and the press junket is about to happen. Like the movie is about to come out- 

S: What's a press junket, John?

J: A press junket is where you go into a room, and you get asked questions by reporters every seven minutes for like ten hours in a row. And if you have a movie that's successful, this happens ten, or fifteen, or twenty days in a row, and it's um... among the luxury experiences that a human being can have.

S: But it's soul-killing.

J: The less pleasant, I'd say. Sarah saw me do it once, and at the end of three or four hours--

S: But I feel like actors are better suited to it, because it's their job to repeat lines over and over...

J: I agree, but I think it depends on the actor.

S: Yeah.

J: I think some actors are better suited to it and others aren't.  

S: Yeah.

J: By the way I didn't tell you this, but Nat texted us today and said that he was thinking about us and hoping that we were well and staying safe.

S: Aw, that's nice.

J: Such a great guy.

S: So now we have our bean on tracing paper--

J: Bean on tracing paper.

S: ...so that the next bean painting we do, we've got this! 

J: Yeah, alright so this is the beginning.  It's about the lead up to a test.  Do you know what the testing is?  It's where you screen test--  you have a lead actor and then you screen test the second lead.

S: I know, tell them.

J: You screen test like three potential, or four potential second leads to figure out who the two main people in the movie are going to be.  

J: So this is about a kid who's just been in one movie and now he's in the lead up to this big screen test that's gonna decide, you know, if he's gonna be in this movie, Gods of Andromeda

J: "Juniper and I were sitting across from each other on the plane with a f--" Oh and also they're on a private plane on the way to... the story starts on a private plane.

J: "Juniper and I were sitting across from each other on the plane with a fold-out table and a sizeable vase of flowers between us such that Juniper's head seemed to be made of tightly-bunched rosebuds.

J: "The flight attendant asked me if I wanted a glass of wine, and I wasn't quite of legal drinking age, but even modest celebrity is a kind of adulthood, so I said I would love to try the red.

J: "She poured, the wine not splashing into the glass so much as swirling into it, and I took a sip as the flight attendant looked at me expectantly.

J: "'It's good' I told her.  And she said 'I'm glad you like it.'  And Juniper said 'when I die, bury me with this plane.'

J: And Katie the publicist said "If you want to own a plane like this, you'd better do Gods of Andromeda.'  

J: "And Juniper said 'Ah, the eternal dilemma: to lose one's soul, or lose one's plane.'  Juniper always talked like that."

J: "We went back to playing bullshit; two actors with pretty good reads on each other.  After a while, Juniper said 'Will you run this with me?'"

J: "'The Gods of Andromeda thing?' 'Yeah.' she said. 'Sure.'"

J: "I wanted to push the flowers out of the way, it was ridiculous to have a conversation without seeing each other, but I didn't do it for some reason.  They didn't feel like my flowers."

J: "Juniper scooted out from the table and came over to my side.  Her hair was down over her face; she was wearing sweatpants and a tank top, but neither looked particularly casual or comfortable."

J: "She took a sip of my wine and then asked 'May I have a glass of this?' And then Janet the acquisition specialist leapt off the couch at the back of the plane to get a flight attendant to get Juniper some wine."

J: "Juniper pulled out some extremely folded paper from her sweatpants and handed it to me.  It reminded me of a middle school love letter.  I unfolded the page and scanned the action."

J: "'You're, uh, Medivh?' 'I guess if I want this plane I am.  Medivh, guardian of the, I don't know, realm? Dominion?'"

J: "I smirked and just went into it. 'You dare interrupt the lawful trial of Agrippa?' 'I fear I must, for strike this woman!' The orcs!' 

J: "There was gravel in her throat all of a sudden. 'The orcs, my lord, they've laid waste to Calenbath, what is not fire is ash. Our allies are gone, our enemies are at the gate. The future is in doubt and the past is buried in the ground, my lord there is only time, and the time is now.'

J: "'Can it be?' 'The time for questions has passed, the time of speaking has passed, we fight now all of us, no trials, no tribes, no guilds, only man and orc, we fight for the Calenbath that was, and the Calenbath that shall be.' 

J: "'That was good' I said. 'It kind of makes me want to die' she answered. 'Then, maybe don't take it?' 'Oh, she's taking it.' said Katie the publicist. 'That movie is going to shit money.' 

J: "Ellen, sitting next to her on the couch, agreed. 'Everyone with a freaking pulse is trying to get into Gods of Andromeda, one way or another. Brilliant director, massive budget, it's the next tent pole for Sony, and Katie is correct about it shitting money, it's going to get money Ebola, and money will pour out of every orifice-"

S: I don't know about that...

J: I'll cut that. "Juniper and I shared a look-" I mean the whole point is that they're terrible people, for the record.

S: Yeah, I got it.

J: "'Would you do it?' Juniper asked me. 'Probably.' I didn't tell her, but I was actually in the running for Garron's anxious brother. I'd sent in a self-tape, and they'd liked it, and once they cast the leads, they wanted me to come in for a chemistry read. My agent, Bob, thought I had a good chance at it."

J: "'Everyone says Brian Lansing is brilliant' I said. Juniper rolled her eyes a little but leaned into me. I could smell her shampoo. 'If he's so smart, why did he direct that X-men movie?' 'That X-men movie made "buy this plane" money' Katie said. Also, I liked that X-men movie, but I didn't say anything.

J: "Studio Todd squeezed on the couch between Janet and Katie said 'Have you ever heard the moth joke?' 'Jesus Christ, Todd if you tell one more joke, I'm going to jump out of this plane.'

J: "'Alright so a moth flies into a cardiologist's office' Todd said.  He had grey hair, but it was cut fashionably, and he always wore a very trim suit. He talked a lot, so I knew a lot about him. He had girls, both in college, which you wouldn't believe the cost.  He woke up every morning at 5 a.m. and ran for exactly 5 miles and had been doing this 6 days a week since he was in high school."

J: "And had been doing this six days a week since he was in high school, told me that once he'd torn something in his knee and couldn't run for six months and glimpsed insanity.  He told a lot of jokes. 

   "So this cardiologist, a cardiologist is a heart doctor, works on hearts..."

   "We know what a fucking cardiologist is, Todd," said Katie.

   "The cardiologist says 'What seems to be the problem,  Moth?'  And the moth says 'Ugh, Doc, if only I had one problem.  My father's dead, I miss him terribly, I'm still a young moth and I don't know how to live in the world without him.  My girlfriend, I mean I guess she's my girlfriend but I'm not even  sure, she's gone completely mad and no longer even recognizes me.  Worst of all my mother has taken up with my uncle.  I feel so lost and alone, Doc.  I don't even know if I want to go on.'  And the cardiologist says 'Well those are very serious problems, Moth,  but it seems to me you need to see a psychiatrist.  I'm a cardiologist. What brought you here today?'  And the moth says 'Oh, the light was on.'"
   Only Juniper laughed, but she really laughed.

J: That's the beginning.

S: Yeah! 

J: Have you read that before?

S: No.

J: What did you think?

S: I thought it was great.  But I've heard the moth joke.

J: So has everyone who knows me.

S: Haven't you made a video about the moth joke?

J: Probably.  I like that nobody likes Todd.

S: Yeah.

J: Yeah, um.

S: I think it's great it's very, rings true.  

J: Oh yeah. Thank you.

S: Yeah.

J: Um, yeah, so that's a little bit of, uh.

S: Macbeth.

J: More Hamlet.

S: Yeah.

J: But I get them confused all the time myself.  

S: Ok.  So what we're doing next, I've replicated the beans so, you probably can't see, there's one bean, but I've traced it.  Now I have several beans that are the same shape.

J: Right.

S: And so...

J: This is key.

J: ...because it provides consistency to our loyal bean purchasers.

S: Right, you don't want the one wonky bean.

J: You don't want the bad bean.

S: Yeah, so then the next thing I'm going to do- we're using nice, thick watercolour paper, and now I'm going to take some rubber cement...

J: Yeah.

S: And I'm going to paint an outline of rubber cement around the bean so that it contains any paint we do inside. And then after the paint dries, you can rub it away and it acts like sort of a barrier so you've got a nice clean line. 

J: It's really nice, and that way you can- you don't have to- you can mess up and it's not like, a critical error.

S: Right, you can have more fun doing it.

J: This also means though that Sarah has to do the rubber cement part of the work...

S: Yeah.

J: ...because it's very detail oriented.

S: Yeah.

J: So I'll just read the next chapter.

S: Okay. I haven't heard it either, this is fun.

J: What did you think of that part?

S: I thought that's good!

J: The problem is that it doesn't really fit in with the rest of the story, but-

S: Well, I want to know how it starts, but-

J: That's how it starts. 

S: Oh! Okay.

J: That was it. Welcome to the beginning. (laughs) It's in media race, Sarah.

S: Okay, all right.

J: Alright. "When we landed in California, Katie the publicist wanted to take a picture of Juniper and me in front of the plane, but
I said no because I couldn't have people in real life know that I was on a private plane. 'You Insta for your fans, not for your friends.' said Katie the publicist.

J: "Oh my god." I said "I Insta for my friends.' Juniper laughed. She took a step toward me and grabbed my hand. 'I love it. I love you. You're like the last Truffula tree in Lorax Land! Don't cut him down, Katie. Let him live."

S: That's funny.

J: Thank you. Does that mean the other jokes weren't funny?

S: No. 

J: That's what it's like to live with me.

J: "There were two black SUVs waiting for us.  Juniper and Katie and
studio Todd and Janet the acquisition specialist disappeared into one of them-" woah. What's going on down here?

S: Just giving them a little-

J: Giving them a little-

S: Some painting.

J: Turn the paper here.

J: Do that.

S: Okay, keep reading. 

J: " Um"

J: "There were two black SUVs waiting for us.  Juniper and Katie and
studio Todd and Janet the acquisition specialist disappeared into one of them, and then Ellen and me got into the other. Our driver said his name was Al.
'Like Alvin?' I asked '
No.' he said.
'I'm Kye.' I said.
'Like Karate Kid?'
'Exactly like it.' I said.
"You don't sound like you're from LA." he said after a second.
Beside me Ellen was on her phone. The SUV didn't smell like one thing or another so much as it smelled overwhelming. 
"I'm from Florida," I told him.
"My condolences," he said.
Ellen handed me the phone. It was Juniper's Instagram. A picture of her and me holding hands with the plane in the background.
"Juniper Poster this?"
"Hmm if I had to guess Katie posted it for Juniper," Ellen said.
"She said it was the last Truffala tree in Lorax land and then she cut me down"
"Jesus Kai no need to be dramatic it's Instagram"
Ellen worked for the studio while Katie worked for Juniper. Once you get famous enough you get your own publicist. Juniper was getting famous enough. She was about to happen. That's what Ellen said. Ellen said people like Juniper don't know what's coming but it's coming anyway.
I was about to happen too but not in the same way.
"Where in Florida?" Al asked
"On the gulf side near Sarasota."
"Lotta old people down that way," he said.
"Yeah, you from here?"
"No, I'm from Iran, you know Iran?"
"Sure," I said.
"So you in a movie?"
"Yeah," I said.
"What movie?"
"Uh it's called Pro Patria Mori," I said.
"What's it about?"
"I don't know," I said, "I haven't seen it."
Ellen jumped in "It's about a major in the marine corps who returns home from a deployment overseas and begins caring for the daughter of a marine in his platoon who died"

 (56:00) to (58:00)


J: "Majors don't have platoons," I said, "they have battalions."
"A marine in his battalion who died," Ellen said.
"So who're you?" Al asked
"I'm the major's son. The movie's mostly about him and his this girl but in the movie, he kind of neglects me while taking care of this southern girl and so I get kinda messed up."
"You get kinda messed up," he repeated.
"I mean in the movie," I clarified.
After a while, Al said, "I meet a lot of actors."
"You ever met Keanu Reeves?" Ellen asked.
"Sure I met Keanu, drove Keanu a few times, nice guy, quiet."
"Keanu's in the movie," Ellen said.
I could hear Al smile. Keanu makes everyone smile. It's his superpower.
"That's great, Congratulations, so what are you doing next?"
"I don't know," I said, "I don't even know what I'm doing tonight."
Al laughed.
Outside Los Angeles was tinted grey. I'd only been here a few times. Twice to screen test for things I didn't get and once to screen test for Pro Patria Mori.
I lived in New York, or I guess I did. I'd been there since the movie wrapped. Before that, I'd been in Louisiana for a couple months for the movie and before that, I'd been in New York for a year and before that, I'd been in High school.
I don't like to think about all that stuff. Where you are in your life or your career or where you live or whatever. It just gives me a stomachache.
I get the same stomachache when I look at the Google calendar Ellen made for me laying out the 22 days between now and the movie's premiere. Or when I think about what my Brother's doing right now, or when I look at my Instagram or when the ATM asks if I want to see my bank account's balance.
I have some kind of stomach ache most of the time so I don't eat enough which is part of the reason I don't look like someone who's about to happen. All of the guys who are about to happen in young Hollywood are ripped.

J: Everybody always says that Los Angeles is Sunny but mostly it's just dry. No weeds growing in the sidewalk cracks. Home always looked like nature was about to take the land back from us, Everything wet and humid and green and growing. In a way, even the green lawns looked parched. Never enough water.
Al asked me if I like Keanu and I told him I did which was the truth and I thought about this one time when Keanu told me that a good life can fit entirely inside of your car and a great life can fit entirely inside of your motorcycle.

S: Mmm. Keanu.

J: That's the second chapter.

S: Real quotes?

J: No

S: No?

J: Based on a - based on a real quote.

S: Oh, you changed him?

J: Huh?

S: You changed- you changed his words?

J: He's a fictional character!

S: Keanu Reeves?

J: Yeah! I mean this is a made-up novel. 

S: Cool. I like it. I wanna hear more. 

J: Well that's all you get for now. I think. Well, let me see what the third chapter is.

S: Mhmm

J: Oh well it has a- it has a- it has a good bit in it. I'm worried that it's not funny enough.

S: No, it's funny.

J: You didn't laugh at the- this is what it's like to live with me -  you didn't laugh at the joke where Al says- where Kai says "I'm from Florida" and Al says "My condolences". I think that's a great joke.

S: Yeah but I've heard a lot of Florida jokes.

J: Never enough.

S: Yeah.

J: Uh

S: You famously- yeah-

J: I grew up in Florida so I'm allowed to- I'm allowed to-

S: To hate on Florida.

J: Yeah.

S: There's a lot of great Florida but you know every- everybody hates on Florida.

J: Everyone is allowed to make fun of their hometown.

S: But everybody-  No I'm just saying it's a frequent joke, I feel.

J: Maybe I should- Maybe I should make it Indiana then.

S: Oooh. No.

J: Because, well the nice thing about Indiana is that I have like

S: But then again it's socially acceptable to hate on Florida because of the Florida man.

J: Right but maybe it's funnier if it's Indiana and Al says " My Condolences" and then he has- and then- then Kai has all kinds of Indiana problems instead of having Florida problems which I agree are a little bit more kind of played out.

S: I don't know what do you guys think?

J: Danny says never enough Florida jokes. Uh and Just Load Already says it was pretty funny in my opinion

S: Yeah. Ok so-

J: Um. I giggled internally. Yeah, I mean I'm not looking for internal giggles though. I'm looking-

S: Well no. You're not writing like, a book of jokes. Like I- I enjoy

J: As you know Sarah, I think that all of my books are like essentially comic novels.

S: No they're not

J: But that is how I experience them.

S: No. They're just not. They have funny moments.

J: I love it. I wanna comic novel

S: I mean very rarely do I read a book and guffaw, you know what I mean? 

J: Where'd you go Bernadette?

S: Where'd you go Bernadette

J: An abundance of Katherines

S: Tina Fey's book

J: Oh God Tina Fey's book is guffaw funny. Yeah, I guess like I-

S: You're not a comedian

J: I know but I want to be like I want to be a comic novelist. Like when I was a kid my favourite-

S: I saw your college improve VHS tapes

J: That's good. Well first off those were sketches. Those were scripted believe it or not but when I was like- yeah- I always wanted to be a comic novelist and I've always kind of liked- I guess kind of- kind of somewhat thought of myself that way but like my books are not primarily funny in the eyes of the readers which is like what matters.

S: Right. Yes. 

J: I just probably need to lean into what I know

S: Yeah

J: John should do stand up for charity. Oh my God no.

S: No

J: I mean I'm way too-

S: Hahaha

J: No.

S: A lot of people really liked my condolences and I think you should keep it.

J: Laura said Indiana would feel fresher. I- no I'm keeping my condolences. My condolences-

S: Yeah

J: Dont, Sarah. My condolences is a great line.

S: Great.

J: It's- is it funnier if he says "No, I'm from Indiana." and Alice says "My condolences." 

S: Right.

J: It might be funnier.

S: I don't think so. I think it's like, when you sort of pick on somebody smaller. Like, I don't know.

J: Well, the other- so the other thing is that my last two books have both been set in Indiana.

S: Right, so maybe you gotta go back to your other stage.

J: No no no I know. I kind of like- I kind of like that. Like, I like that I've- I like that I've settled in a place as a writer and it's a place I know, and then also like I could like- Kai's problems that he has later in the book would be very uh... they would make sense to me, they would be easy for me. I don't know I think-

S: Yeah.

J: And like you know, I- I like when writers settle into a place in their career, and- and- and dig deep into that place, and there's a lot I like about writing about Indianapolis. I think it's a super interesting- as you know I think Indianapolis is the most American city-

S: Oh...

J: And that makes it really interesting city.

S: I think it's an American city. Yes.

J: Yes.

S: Yes.

J: Specifically the most.

S: No, but I think- I think America is not one thing. I think America many things.

J: I know, but so is. Indianapolis.

S: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

J: It is.

S: I don't know if I agree with you.

J: Okay, well, we can talk about that offline.

S: What about Alabama?

J: What about Alabama? I feel like if somebody says they're from
Alabama and then you say 'my condolences' you're being a jerk.

S: Yeah I kind of feel like that about Indiana to.

J: Do you?

S: Yeah, a little bit.

J: Mmm... maybe it's gonna stay Florida then. This is the kind of thing that I spend way too much time thinking about instead of thinking about like, what should happen in the novel. Think about like, how can I make this joke the best that it can be, instead of
like, thinking about like, hey is Allen a good character?  Does he have an arc?

S: Well- and they're also getting a preview of my feedback when you read me things, like I very- I get into the details...

J: Yes.

S: ...and it's usually like details that really trip me up.

J: Yes.

S: I'm like 'well it was going great'...

J: Right.

S: ...but then I was completely thrown off by this really inconsequential thing.

J: Yeah, yes, which is which is helpful.

S: Yeah, but I'm just one person.

J: Yeah but there's also- well but I never...

S: I mean you're not writing it for me.

J: No, but you're always right.  But the...

S: Utah.

J: Utah's good, but I don't know anything about Utah, so I would struggle...

S: You've been to Utah...

J: ...to like write a character from Utah because I would struggle- I've been to Utah sure, but I would struggle to like, understand what his childhood was like because I haven't spent enough time in Utah to really like, I think get that.  Anyway, this is all a detail, this is one
word...

S: New Jersey is fair game.

J: In what will hopefully be a fairly long story, I don't New Jersey is too easy.

S: Yeah.

J: It's like Florida.

S: Yeah.

J: Yeah it's the Florida of the north. We'll move on but- but yeah,
anyway thanks for letting me read that it was- it was a little bit like...

S: Does that help you?

J: Hhaving a body with no skin? Um, yeah it- well there are parts of it that are helpful, where I'm like 'oh like that is actually- like that's that is maybe working. But honestly I'll probably go back later and look at the comments, and then- then I'll have a sense how people
responded to it. But the weird thing is that like, you know the 3.8 thousand people who are watching this right now are the like, the  3.8 thousand people whose opinion I most care about, so like it's an incredible opportunity to be able to learn from the- the people who are the experts I guess.

S: Yeah, that's true.

J: So listen we're not gonna make any paintings tonight.

S: We've prepared, so this is a lesson. We have prepared our beans.

J: Look at this- look at this high quality, rubber- rubber cementing that Sarah has done.

S: Yeah, so you probably- I don't know if you can see that in the light, but we made a barrier around the outside, so that when we actually paint- and we'll paint next time.

J: We'll paint next time.

S: So sometimes you do have to prepare first.

J: Yeah.

S: You got to get the good paper out, you got to draw nice picture, and get your stuff together, and then you paint next time.

J: When should we commit to doing another one? This Friday night?

S: Friday night? (Laughing) The calendar's clear.

J: My publisher Julie Strauss-Gabel said that she got a call from UPS on like, last Friday, and the call was 'will you be home between 9:00 a.m. and 3 p.m. to pick up this package?', which usually is like, such a long period of time and you're like 'well I mean I've got a lot of stuff going on', but she was just like 'uh, yeah, I'll be home'.

S: (Lauging) I've thought about that since you told me.

J: Yeah.

S: Like, yeah. I'll be here.

J: I'll be here. I'll either be here, or I'll be in the backyard. Those are the two- those are my two major locations at the moment. Yeah so,
thank you for- for being here with us I-

S: And we promise next time, actual painting.

J: Actual painting. Though um...

S: Though I painted rubber cement. 

J: You did paint, yeah but I don't know if this has been helpful for y'all, but it has been very helpful for me. I feel better than I did an hour ago.

S: Yeah, thanks everybody.

J: Which, you know, it was a low bar to jump over an hour ago, but...

S: Here we are.

J: Here we are. So, let's stay in it together. I think you can continue the conversation and comments, even after we leave, and I often say this, but I think it's worth saying, when we used to host blog TV shows in the old, old, old days of live streaming back in 2008 and 2009 on blogtv.com, after our shows would end, there would always be a group of people who would hang out and talk to each other, and- and many of those people became friends, and one of those people was Esther, Esther Earl to whom The Fault in Our Stars is
dedicated.

J: And Esther and her friends and cattitude were- were and are such an important part of Nerdfighteria, running the Project for Awesome for many years behind the scenes, working for VidCon, all kinds of different stuff, but I hope that the one thing that we really hope comes out of this is that you find ways to connect with- with each other, because that's where we think the value is. And so I hope that you'll try to find ways to connect with each other.

J: Again, there is a Discord, there are two Discords actually for- that I know of- for Nerdfighters, one is a Nerdfighter-specific Discord, one is called Tuataria, they're both great and- and also you- if you're interested in finding community, you can join the Life's Library book club, they're paid memberships where you get books every time, or you can just become a free member and get the book from your local library.

J: So please, please keep finding ways to connect with each other,
because I think that together we will get through this, and it's gonna be long and it's- I don't want to minimize how difficult it's gonna be, but-

S: It's gonna be hard.

J: It's gonna be hard, but we're gonna get through it, and we're gonna get through it together, and we will see you on Friday night.

S: Bye, guys.

J: Bye.