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Can I hoard stolen goods? How do I make sure I don't become a racist? How do I get cookies? And more!

Email us: hankandjohn@gmail.com
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Hank's book is available for preorder! Learn more at hankgreen.com.

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  Cold Open / Intro


John: Hi! Hi, it's John here with a very special cold open. So, during this episode of Dear Hank and John, Hank and I talk quite a bit about his upcoming book, An Absolutely Remarkable Thing. We also mention that the preorder will be available soon. Well, every time we say that, just imagine that we are actually saying that the preorder is available now. That's right, Hank's book is available for preorder now wherever you preorder books. You can also go to hankgreen.com. There are links there. Okay, that's it, I just wanted to pre-correct the incorrect facts in this pod. Also, I just want to say, this is a really, really wonderful book. I'm not saying that only because Hank is my brother. It is a really special novel. I am so proud of him and so excited for him. I really hope that you'll preorder the book. It's called An Absolutely Remarkable Thing. It's by Hank Green. It is his first novel, and it is available for preorder now. Alright, on to the episode. 

[Dear Hank and John intro music plays] 

Hank: Hello, and welcome to This Week in ... Ryans?

John: That's not the title of this podcast at all. 

Hank: What? Dear Hank and John!

John: That's it! I prefer to think of it as Dear John and Hank. Or This Week in Ryans. Whatever.

Hank: [laughing] It's a comedy podcast where two brothers answer your questions, give you dubious advice, and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. John, how are you?

John: I'm cold. I'm cold, Hank. I've been cold for two months! It's complete - this situation is utterly unacceptable to me. Every day I go outside and it is somehow colder than it was the day before. The snow is so cold you can't even make snowballs out of it. It just falls apart in your hands because it's made out of ice. It's ice snow.

Hank: Yeah. 

John: Agh.

Hank: Ice snow, yeah.

John: It's horrible. Horrible. Everything is terrible. I'm so tired of Winter. Why do I live here? 

Hank: I mean, I didn't even know that Indianapolis really had winter. I mean it's -

John: It usually has a nice, mild winter where it gets down to, you know, like ten degrees a few times. This - the entire month of January has been just horrific. Terrible. So I just want to say to everybody in warm weather climates, if you're listening to this in the southern hemisphere or if you're in Florida or Arizona or something, just give us a bit of that warmth. We're desperate up here. We're dying. 

Hank: Oh, John - so would you say that, of the things that are sort of, like, native to Indianapolis -

John: Yeah. 

Hank: Weather clearly is not one of them that you really enjoy. Also I don't see you going out to sort of like the tremendous variety of chain restaurants that are available to you -

John: Mmhmm.

Hank: You don't seem to be indulging in that -

John: Yep.

Hank: Sort of like - which is a big perk of Indianapolis. You do enjoy the Motor Speedway, so maybe - is that like, the thing that's keeping you there? What is it about Indianapolis, like, of the things that are specific to that place tha you really sort of indulge in? 

John: I love the Indianapolis Motor Speedway but you really only need the Indianapolis Motor Speedway one day a year, you know? I I could probably -

Hank: What happens there the rest of the time? 

John: - fly in.

Hank: Yeah.

John: Like, if necessary I could probably fly in for the race. 

Hank: What happens - is there like, do they have an amphitheater or do they have like a juniors racing -

John: No, the whole month, actually the whole month of May in Indianapolis is a great thrill, because the cars are running almost every day, you can take your kids to the garage, they can meet the drivers -

Hank: Okay. 

John: They can see all the engineering and stuff, and that's fun. Other than that, the main thing that keeps me here is the people, which sounds, I know, a little bit cheesy, but it's true. We have wonderful friends, and the thought of moving to a different place where I would have to make new friends just is unbearable to me. It took me so long to make good friends. And then, I have to say, I find it to be a physically beautiful place much of the year, so that even though I'm only eight or ten minutes away from the 11th largest downtown in the United States, so it's a properly big city, I get to live with coyotes and foxes and deer and all that stuff. So that's the other big thing that I like about it. But it's no Missoula, Hank, I'll tell you that. It's no Missoula when it comes to cold. 

Hank: What are the things specific to Indianapolis that you choose not to indulge in? Like in Missoula, I choose not to indulge in downhill skiing. 

John: Oh, yeah.

Hank: It's just not suitable for my temperment. 

John: Right no, mine neither. I'm not a downhill skier, or a snowboarder for that matter. The main thing that I choose not to indulge in in Indianapolis is the sports. 

Hank: Ah!

John: There's a tremendous sporting culture here for the Indianapolis Colts -

Hank: Right.

John: - the Indianapolis Pacers, and it's just - it's not that I don't like the Colts, I know a couple of the Colts. Some of them may be listening. They're nice people.

Hank: [laughing] I know a couple - 

John: I do! I do, I have -

Hank: Hello, Colt. 

John: I have a couple Colt friends. 

Hank: Is like, - is one Colt a Colt? Like if you're just one of the Broncos, you're a Bronco? 

John: Oh yeah!

Hank: One of the Lakers, you're a Laker?

John: Yeah. Yeah.

Hank: Is that how it works? Okay. 

John: I have to say, the two Colts I know the best, I'm not sure that they're completely committed to being Indianapolis Colts so much as they enjoy being in the NFL. I don't know if it's the Colts themselves that are the overwhelming draw- 

Hank: Yeah.

John: - so much as it's being able to play professional football. But yeah, anyway, I don't - I guess that's what I don't indulge in. Would you like a short poem?

Hank: Yeah, hit me! 

John: Alright, it's Fire and Ice by Robert Frost. You know this poem? 

Hank: Uh, is Robert Frost his actual last name? Frost?

John: I think so. Yeah, but that's why I went with it, because we've got a cold theme. 

Hank: Yeah, okay.

John: Fire and ice. Emphasis on the ice. 

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: The poem goes like this. "Some say the world will end in fire. Some say in ice. From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire, but if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to say that for destruction, ice is also great and would suffice." 

Hank: Mm!

John: Nice poem by Robert Frost about fire and ice and hate and god it's so cold! 

Hank: Do you know how many Pulitzer prizes Robert Frost won? 

John: Mm, two? 

Hank: Four! Also -

John: That's a lot. 

Hank: - his last name isn't actually Frost. His name is Robert Lee Ryan. 

[long pause] 

John: No. 

Hank: No. 

John: No, you can't catch me - you can't trick me with Ryan jokes. I'm too ready for them. Hank, let's answer some questions from our listeners.



 Question 1 (6:12)



Hank: This first question comes from Ángel, who writes, "Dear Hank and John, I have some novels I want to recommend to this person, but we're not really close, and he isn't even a reader. I think that he'll really like these novels, but I can't come up to him and be like, 'hey, you don't know me, but here's a book. Read it! Read it! Read it! Read it!' How dow I approach him subtly and segue into giving him recommendations and actually get this person to read the books. Hoping for your dubious advice." 

John: I mean, that's a great question for me, because of course, my career is literally built around trying to get people I don't know to read a book. 

Hank: [laughs] One time I was at Barnes and Noble and there was somebody who had picked up The Fault in Our Stars -

John: Yep.

Hank: And they were like, looking at it, and like, they walked around the store for a little bit and then they put it back, and I was like, what do I do in this situation? Do I just let this happen? 

John: Yeah.

Hank: Do I just let this person not buy The Fault in Our Stars who is clearly considering it but has now made the ultimate decision that, no, instead I'm going to buy some other piece of trash! 

John: No, I'm sure the other book was good.

Hank: And that's what I did, John. That's what I did. 

John: But it is difficult- I think if you're going to intervene in that situation, Hank, you have to do it before they put the book down. So you have to be like -

Hank: Right.

John: - while they're holding it, you have to be like, "oh, that's a great book. I really, really enjoyed it." I certainly do that whenever I'm in Target and I see somebody holding Turtles All the Way Down, I'm always like, "hey, I think you'll like that. I really loved it."

Hank: [laughs] I think it's better if they put it back on the shelf and then I grab it and I run up to them and I'm like, "you put this down! You lost this, you forgot it." And then they'll be like, "no, I meant -" and I'll be like, "nope! Nope! it's yours now. Your hand prints are all over it." 

John: [laughs] Ángel, the thing you have to do is you have to become closer to this person. I mean, you can't just go foisting media on people you don't know well because you think that they'll like it. You have to develop a relationship and then foist the media. 

Hank: Mmhmm. Yep. Yeah, I have no idea. I have a very hard time getting people to read books because books are a big commitment.

John: Yeah, it is. 

Hank: And people also have a hard time getting me to read books. You sent me some books for Christmas and I haven't read any of them yet! 

John: Ah, there's a couple really good ones. 

Hank: Well, I'll do my best. I'm in the middle of so many different books, John. 

John: Hey, Hank, speaking of books, when is your book going to be available for preorder so I can start talking about it?

Hank: I don't know the answer to that question, John, but it should be relatively soon. 

John: It's so good! I mean I - admittedly, to be honest, I did go into it with somewhat low expectations. 

Hank: [laughs] Okay, okay. 

John: It's was so much better than I expected it to be. 

Hank: Tell me about your low expectations. Let's start there. 

John: Well, you know, I've read a lot of books by YouTubers. Some of them are great, some of them are terrible. 

Hank: Yeah.

John: So, you know, I went into it thinking, "oh great, another YouTuber book. Just what the world needs. But it's brilliant! 

Hank: [laughs] Thanks. I -

John: It really is! I mean, I'm not just saying that. I was completely - and the thing about it - I won't go into it too much, because we've got to save the praise for when people can preorder, but -

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: The thing about it that has really stuck with me is that it is a really fascinating exploration of how fame and the culture around fame warps individual consciousnesses, but also it is a incredibly well told story. Like, my books are mostly about how plot gets interrupted by character. And your book is so well plotted! Like, it was such a pleasure to read! I roared through it. So anyway, I'm incredibly excited for you, and really genuinely blown away by how good it is. 

Hank: Thank you. Thank you a lot. The thing that we're working on right now is the copy that's going to, like - the preorder will go up but there's all the words that go up, like -

John: Mmhmm.

Hank: -in his much anticipated debut novel, Hank Green has a book! Spins a sweeping cinematic tale about a young woman who becomes an overnight sensation and realizes that she's part of something bigger than anyone could possibly imagine. I'm reading directly off of the thing right now. And so I have to like, figure out what that's going to look like. 

John: Yeah.

Hank: Like, I have to approve these words! I never thought about the fact that - like, I didn't think I'd be involve in that process. 

John: Oh yeah, no there's a lot of authoring that you don't know about yet. There's a lot of making sausage in any business -

Hank: Yeah. 

John: - and then when you're actually making the sausage you're like, "oh, this is a lot of work, isn't it?" 

Hank: Yep. Yep.

John: Alright, let's move on to another question. This one -

Hank: I've got to crank this sausage crank! 

John: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Well, good luck cranking the flap copy sausage crank. 

Hank: Yeah.

John: That's what that's called, by the way. The flap copy. I've always liked that term. 



 Question 2 (11:11)



John: Alright. This next question comes from Olivia, who writes, "Dear John and Hank, is Kylie Jenner pregnant? I have no idea what conclusion to draw from the available evidence, which is mostly reports from anonymous sources and insiders, and I have no idea what that means. It's driving me crazy, which is a situation I never expected to be in. I appreciate your dubious thoughts on all subjects including hopefully this one. Olivia." 

Hank: John, I mean, it does seem that we know a surprising amount about Kylie Jenner's reproductive strategies considering that she has not said anything about this publicly. And so I feel like it's none of my business whether Kylie Jenner is pregnant. Yeah?

John: Uh, yeah, no, I agree, obviously it's none of our business. But I - and my initial feeling was also like, oh, this question, it's unfair. It's unfair to Kylie, et cetera. But then, I am completely obsessed with other unanswered questions like whether Donald Trump knowingly colluded with the Russian government during his campaign for president. Which is also a question that will be answered in the fullness of time, and I would argue is like - maybe the question itself is more important than the question of whether Kylie Jenner is pregnant, but the way that I am interested in it -

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: - is in that exact same salacious way that one is interested in any piece of gossip. So I don't want to be dismissive of the question. I will say Kylie Jenner had a crib delivered to her home in Los Angeles recently, which I think is highly dubious. 

Hank: Is there a certain - well, I mean, sometimes your friends are coming over and they have kids, or you know, her sisters all have kids -

John: Yeah, maybe you get a Pack and Play in that situation. I'm not sure you get a full crib.

Hank: That's true. Not necessarily - well, if you're really rich you probably do. You probably have -

John: Maybe. 

Hank: She probably has like a bunch of extra rooms in her house. 

John: Do you think Kylie Jenner is that rich? 

Hank: I think that Kylie Jenner is probably rich. I just assume! I hear her name a lot. I think that she has a makeup line. 

John: Oh, oh, oh. She's very rich. 

Hank: [laughs] Did you Google "Kylie Jenner net worth" like everybody else in the world? 

[keyboard noises] 

John: I did, I did. I did. Kylie Jenner is a wealthy person. 

Hank: Oh, there's no way that Kylie Jenner is as rich as it says she is, but she is very well off. 

John: Yeah. Well, I'm happy for her, is the important thing. I'm sure she works hard, and whether or not she's pregnant is not our business and she will tell us when she is ready. 

Hank: Right.

John: It's weird, because of course like, we all feel like we deserve some kind of access to celebrities' lives, because they do offer us access to their lives. 

Hank: Right - 

John: But I also think that people should be able to draw the line where they want to draw it. 

Hank: Yeah, but I do feel like - like, is there a possibility that Kylie Jenner is like, intentionally getting a crib delivered to her home in order to create more news around Kylie Jenner, that she's going to CVS in a large hoodie in which could be concealed a baby bump in order to generate more buzz about Kylie Jenner? It seems maybe. It seems like maybe. 

John: I don't know. I mean, this is actually - this gets back to issues raised in your book. 

Hank: [laughs] It does. 

John: In fascinating ways. We do, as public figures - and by the way, I don't think you and I are ultimately that different from Kylie Jenner except in terms of scale, and also success. She's been far more successful. But I think people are inevitably, to an extent, calculating about the way that the public looks at them. I'm not sure that they're that calculating. 

Hank: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think that it's an unknowable thing, and it's just kind of another thing that we can talk about and will talk about and can generate more discussion and like -

John: Right.

Hank: - it's interesting that even that discussion is part of that feedback loop. 

John: Right, so one thing that we all definitely know, not just the Jenners and Kardashians of the world, but all of us, is that speculation is more valuable than fact. 

Hank: Yeah.

John: So the speculation over whether Kylie Jenner is pregnant is certainly taking up a lot more space -

Hank: Right.

John: - than ultimately the fact will. 

Hank: Yes. Yup!



 Question 3 (15:36)



Hank: This next question comes from Brooke, who asks, "Dear Hank and John, I've been friends with this guy for six years and I assumed that I know most things about him that could affect our friendship. However, the other day we were driving around and he pulls over, finishes his drink, and throws the cup out the window!"

John: Oh boy. 

Hank: "We became friends because we share the same sense of humor along with pretty similar core beliefs and values. But I do not know how to react to this realization that my best friend" - apparently now this is your best friend, - "my best friend willingly litters without remorse. Should I just accept him as he is or try to explain how I feel about this, possibly creating an awkward situation where I come off as self righteous? Any dubious advice would be appreciated. Best wishes, Brooke." How do you even watch this occur without saying something? 

John: Yeah, I feel like that's when you say, like, "stop the car, walk back to the cup, pick up the cup, walk back to the car, apologize, write a letter to your local - like, you know, groundskeeping force saying that you're sorry and you've done this in the past and you've changed your ways."

Hank: Yeah.

John: I mean, we all do terrible things, Hank. Look, we're all deeply flawed people. We're all contributing to systemic injustice.

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: But you don't have to throw a cup out the window for god's sakes. 

Hank: I mean, there's trash cans every place. They're all over!

John: Yeah! 

Hank: And there's a whole car of places to put a cup. 

John: That's what I was thinking! 

Hank: Is there a world -

John: I mean, forget about trash cans! My feeling is that my car is a large trash can and then just periodically I take out the trash. 

Hank: [laughs] Yeah. No, I can confirm that that is how you feel about your car. The thing that I wonder is, is there a universe in which Brooke's friend thinks that Brooke now thinks that he's cooler because of his irreverent disregard for the laws of littering?

John: Ohhh, right, right. Right. Maybe. Maybe Brooke's friend was trying to impress Brooke.

Hank: Look at me! I don't care about anything! I'm just -

John: Right.

Hank: Look at me, I'm just - the system just doesn't - the system! Raah! 

John: The rules don't apply to me! 

Hank: Rage against the litter machine.

John: I'm sticking it to the man. That's right. Maybe. 

Hank: I'm not sure which man you're sticking it to. Probably just all the people who now have to look at the trash on the side of the road. Yeah!

John: And also the people who have to clean it up. Which, yeah. It's - listen -

Hank: I think in general, like, I want to have a relationship with my friends where when they do something that I think is just unacceptable I can be like, "dude! That is unacceptable." And I - yeah!

John: Totally. So that would be my bigger concern, Brooke, is not so much that this person did this, although it is duly horrifying. But more the question of, do you feel comfortable confronting them and saying like, "Aw, come on!"

Hank: Yeah. Like, 'cause you should - if this is your best friend, if you've been friends with this person for six years, you should be in that place where you can not have to worry about coming off as self righteous. And of course not everybody has the same level of self confidence and power in a relationship, but I think that that is a completely normal thing for a friend to do and I would not - like, it's weird now because you didn't do it in the moment and it would be like, "okay, do we have to talk about - " one time I did this with a friend of mine who, like, we split the check and it became clear that he did not leave a tip. 

John: Mm.

Hank: And I was like, "do I - uh, - " and I didn't say anything in the moment and then I was like, but now I want to make sure that he knows what the rules, are, 'cause like, there's rules and maybe he didn't learn the rules, but also maybe he thought because we were splitting the check that it was different somehow, and so I ended up having the conversation and then he lied to me about it! He just lied, and he was like, "no, no, I always leave a tip!" and then I was like, "oh, I think that you're not a good guy!" 

John: Mm. Yeah, maybe he was just embarrassed and that's how he deals with embarrassment. 

Hank: Maybe. Maybe. 

John: I - as you know, Hank, I'm a little more sympathetic to liars than you are. I don't know why. I think it's just because I'm a more generous, empathetic person. 

Hank: [laughing] Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I've - yeah. Uh-huh. 

John: [laughing] Before we move on, can I tell you a story about my dirty car?

Hank: Okay, is it true?

John: It's true - it's true. I don't even - I don't know if it's funny. I do know that I think about it all the time though. I think about it almost every single time I get into my car. So, many years ago when I was living in Chicago and when Sarah and I were first dating, I was still living with my buddy Hassan, and Hassan and Sarah and I were walking to my car, and Hassan said, "every time I approach your car, I always expect there to be a little rat sitting in the passenger seat, clutching a purse and looking up at me and saying 'where are we going today?'"

Hank: [laughs] What's - [posh voice] What's on the schedule for today?

John: And my cars are still filthy, and every single time I walk up to the car I think, like, is the little rat clutching the purse going to be here today? 

Hank: Yeah, it's just like, the rat is so at home that basically you have become, like, Driving Miss Rat. 

John: Right, exactly. 


 Question 4 (21:01)



John: Alright, this next question comes from Natalie, who writes, "Dear John and Hank, if someone stole a bass clarinet from my high school and gave it to me, do I have a moral obligation to return it? The band director didn't even notice it was gone -"

Hank: Oh, come on! 

John: " - and the girl who stole it graduated. Natalie." 

Hank: I feel like we're going over some real basic stuff today, John! 

John: Yeah, I mean, Natalie -

Hank: No, you can't just hoard stolen goods! 

John: [laughs] I mean, Natalie, you've got to return the bass clarinet in this situation a hundred times out of a hundred. I'm sorry. The only way in which maybe you don't have to return that bass clarinet is if you paid for it not knowing that it was stolen and later found out that it was stolen -

Hank: Right. There's a rule there -

John: That is an interesting moral dilemma. 

Hank: Yeah.

John: This is not an interesting moral dilemma. 

Hank: No, yeah. I'm afraid whether or not the stolen property has been identified as stolen - and also, do you know that the band director didn't notice it was gone? Or does the band director tell you about all of the things that get stolen? Like, are you on the band director email list where there are communications with the police? Like, you don't know! 

John: Also, in a way, isn't it worse if the band director didn't notice it was stolen because it means that the band director is so downtrodden about the amount of stolen goods flying out of the band room?

Hank: [laughing] Oh, man!

John: Listen, Natalie, the great thing about your situation is that you can be a hero here. You walk into the band director's office -

Hank: Yeah.

John: You say, "I have two pieces of good news. I did not steal this bass clarinet," which you can say in complete honesty -

Hank: Mmhmm. 

John: "However, I am returning it to you because the person who did steal it graduated and gave it to me and I didn't feel right about it so here it is. P.S. if you want to give me a reward for my generosity, a bass clarinet would be a great reward." And so maybe, you've got like, a five percent chance of getting a guilt free bass clarinet.

Hank: And also, P.P.S., no, I cannot tell you who stole the bass clarinet. I'm sorry. That person is my friend. 

John: Right, yeah, you can't - you say, "I'm not going to name names, but they did graduate." And then maybe you give a couple hints. 



 Question 5 (23:19)



Hank: [laughs] This next question comes from Em, who asks, "Dear Hank and John, is it impolite to move when a smoker sits down next to you? I'm currently at the library at a computer and somebody came in smelling a lot like cigarette smoke and I can't just leave because I need to use the computers. Please help! I have tried to stop breathing and it is not going well. I await your answer, Em." Yeah, you can totally move. I do that. Like, in a movie theater, if somebody sits down next to me who smells a lot like cigarette smoke, I will move. Absolutely. 

John: So, there's broadly speaking two kinds of former smokers. There's the kind who can no longer bear the sight of cigarettes or the smell of cigarette smoke or the smell of, you know, a person's jacket after they've smoked cigarettes -

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: And I am not that kind of ex smoker. I am the kind of ex smoker who, if somebody sits down next to me, and even if it is the most rancid -

Hank: Eughh. 

John: - stale cigarette smoke smell, I'll just be like, [long inhale] [whispers] oh god it smells so good. [long inhale]

Hank: Could you lean over here a little bit? 

John: Ah, yeah, it's just like the best perfume in the world to me -

Hank: Oh my god.

John: And when people smoke near me, other people get up and move, and I'll be like, "I'm sorry, if it's okay with you guys I'm going to stay here and enjoy the second hand smoke because it's as good as it gets for me these days." 

Hank: [laughs] Oh, man. I never smoked so I am not that person. I will even move if somebody's like, vaping nearby. Can't handle that.

John: No, then I'll move, because - I don't like to see people vaping near me, because the problem with the vaping is that I can see the cloud - it's not the smell or anything, it's that I can see the cloud of their breath approaching me.

Hank: Yeah.

John: And that's like, so horrifying to me because I know all of the bacteria that are travelling with their vape smoke. 

Hank: [laughs] It is super weird, yeah.

John: And so they're shooting me these rings of vape, and I'm just like, "oh god, no." 

Hank: Yeah, because there's something about cigarette smoke where some of it's coming out of the lungs and some of it's coming out of the cigarette, and so you like -

John: Right!

Hank: You don't know 100% where the smoke has been.

John: Exactly. 

Hank: Maybe it's just smoke come of the cigarette - but if it's vape smoke, 100% of that vape smoke has been inside a person. 

John: Yeah, no that's just breath visualized. 

Hank: [laughs] It's terrible now that you've said it. It's breath visualized, one, two, I can't help but trying to guess what flavor the vape juice is -

John: Ah, that's so gross.

Hank: And that just leaves, like, suddenly all conversation stops and you're like, "is it, like, peppermint banana? What is it?" 

John: Oh god.

Hank: Is it -

John: Oh god. 

Hank: Is that like Jolly Rancher watermelon flavor, or is it - what is that - clove? What's happening to my nose? And you can never quite figure out and you have to go talk to the strange vaper and be like, "what is it? Just tell me. What is the juice you got in there, bud?" And then -

John: I can't believe - I mean, I would think that you're doing a bit, except that you are the kind of person to walk up to a stranger and say, "what is the flavor of your vape juice?" 

Hank: [laughs] I totally am.

John: You really are. It's distressing to me. Like, that we share so much DNA and yet you're willing to do a thing that I wouldn't do for, like, probably low five figures. 

Hank: [laughs loudly]



 Question 6 (26:40)



John: Alright, Hank, this next question comes from Aida, who writes, "Dear John and Hank, are fogs clouds? And if so, can they rain? Does everything just get wet? What about lightning? Water is weird, Aida." 

Hank: Are fogs clouds, John? Are fogs clouds - what do you -

John: Well, okay. 

Hank: Uh-huh.

John: I'm not a scientist. But my inclination is to believe that fogs are essentially extremely low-hanging clouds. 

Hank: Yeah. Well, so like, the weird thing is, when does a cloud become clouds?

John: Mmhmm.

Hank: Like if you've got one of those days where it's just 100 percent gray above you, is that just one cloud? It's cloudy. 

John: Right. 

Hank: But those aren't clouds because they're not independent from each other. So fog is one cloud, kind of weirdly definitionally. Like, fog is when you are inside of a single cloud. 

John: Mmhmm.

Hank: And so yes, it is a cloud. It's not clouds, but would be if you looked at a bunch of different fog from far away and it's like clouds hitting the land. But what I have never heard of -

John: Yeah, I mean, the reason I -

Hank: - and I think that there's a good reason for this, is like, fog clouds form in a different way than cumulonimbus clouds do and so they don't have as much perturbation and they don't have as much, like, energy in them, so they can't - they're not big enough to create lightning. So you shouldn't have to worry about fog lightning. Though now that I've said it out loud, the world is a large place, and maybe fog lightning has happened somewhere. But fog clouds do rain. You will notice that if you ever lived in the Pacific Northwest, where you'll be like, "it's foggy," and then you'll be like, "it's raining? And foggy? What is this, it's disgusting, I hate it." But I don't think that you have to worry about fog lightning. I don't think. 

John: So I once walked through a cloud while descending a mountain -

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: - in Denali National Park in Alaska with a girl who'd broken up with me like two weeks before but for some reason we decided to continue on this trip. 

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: It's not totally relevant to the story, but my experience walking through an actual cloud was that it was somewhat thicker than walking through most fogs are. 

Hank: [laughs] I mean, I think that it comes down to the fogs, John! There's a lot of different fogs! Sometimes they're pretty thin, sometimes they're extremely thick. 

John: Yeah. Okay, well I'll believe you.

Hank: But I don't think - I think that fog lightning is something that we are relatively safe from.



 Question 7 (29:13)



Hank: This next question, John, comes from Christine, who asks, "Dear Hank and John, I work as a volunteer at the local food bank. I love my work. We help over 450 families in our city alone. I see those families, register them, and check their finances every few months. About half of our clients are Dutch - I'm from the Netherlands - people with huge debt problems, and the other half are refugees who recently got their status as a refugee and are waiting for their financial situation to be fixed by the government. While I know that my work is appreciated and many, many people depend on it, I have found some strange things people do which should expel them from our food aid, like only taking a few items out of the whole crate of food we provide them, or spending all their money at a casino. The strange thing is that this hasn't happened to any of our Dutch clients. This, combined with the fact that many of our immigrant clients don't speak Dutch or English or German or French and I don't speak Turkish or Arabic has made me think a bit weirdly of our non-Dutch clients. I'm not the only one- my colleagues, who have been doing this for many years, vote the anti immigration party. How do I make sure that I don't become a racist when I have so many bad experiences with immigrants? I like thinking that everything is nuanced, but it's getting hard. Loving food, Christine." 

John: I thought this was a really interesting question, Hank, and it's a difficult one. The first thing I wanted to say about it is I don't think racism is only a character flaw - it is also structural.

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: It is also built in to political and social and economic systems, and so I think it's important to remember that. The second thing I wanted to say is that it's really difficult but incredibly important to be empathetic to people's experiences and how difficult an experience it is to be a refugee. And sometimes people are going to deal with that poorly, and they're going to make really bad choices. People are going to be as human as anyone else, except the population that you're working with, Christine, in many cases are people who have survived what is, to me, unimaginable trauma. They've survived the trauma of dislocation, in many cases they've survived the kinds of loss that most of us will never have to imagine. And now they're in a place that feels very distant from the way that they have lived before and that's challenging. And one of the ways you might deal with that, for instance, is to not eat a lot of the food because a lot of the food isn't good to you or it doesn't make sense to you or you don't know how to prepare it, and because you can't have the conversations that you need to have to build that empathy, to bridge that empathy gap, because of language, all of these problems, I think, can compound upon each other. So just as you're struggling to empathise with people who maybe are making bad choices or in other cases are maybe just dealing with the regular traumas and dislocations of being a refugee, you have to also remember that in a lot of cases the people you're working with can't communicate effectively with people who are the people who would be giving them services and help and, for instance, helping them with a gambling addiction. And so I think you have to work to bridge that empathy gap. Now, that work goes both ways. The refugee populations also need to work to bridge the empathy gap in their host countries, and so I don't want to say that all of the work lies with you, but I do think that it has to be a two way street.

Hank: Yeah, the thing that I'd add - I think that was great, John - is also that racism, like, judging people based on the way that they look or the way that they are, like - this is a natural thing that happens to people. We are pattern recognition machines, and when you are having a number of interactions and some of them are negative, and then some of them end up being negative with a person who looks one way more than a person who looks another way, you start to apply that one negative thing to all of the people because you maybe only interact with people in a certain circumstance. And so it becomes pretty easy to start to see things in a blanket way when they actually aren't a blanket way. 

John: Right.

Hank: But I think that it's - the remarkable thing, Christine, is how carefully you're thinking about this, and also how hard you're working to serve the people that you serve, and thank you for doing that, and I'm glad that the Netherlands has support systems for its citizens, both the people who have been there a while and for refugees as well. 

John: Yeah, for sure.



 Question 8 (34:04)



John: Alright, Hank, let's get to one more question before we thank our sponsors. This one comes from Jessica, who writes, "Dear John and Hank, about a month ago I got a job with my local Girl Scout council and while the job is fulfilling, there is one problem. I thought there would be more cookies. No one has offered me cookies. However there is a cookie closet filled with several cases - "

Hank: [laughing] Oh, jeez! 

John: "- of each kind of cookie."

Hank: Oh, my god. 

John: "The problem is that in order to gain access to the cookie closet, I must tell the secretary why I need cookies. Any dubious advice and fake reasons are appreciated. Cookies and conundrums, Jessica." 

Hank: When this question started out, I thought that the thing was going to be like, "I thought there would be more cookies but it turns out that we only have cookies, that we like, people order the cookies - " No, there is a cookie closet!

John: There is a cookie closet! You just have to say why you need the cookies. 

Hank: I mean, what - are there some examples of - like, "I feel like I need the cookies!" 

John: Well, I can't -

Hank: Is that a good enough reason? I'm a human being!

John: Is it possible to go to the secretary and say, "I need the cookies today because I am hungry for Thin Mints"? 

Hank: "I need the cookies because I cannot sit this close to a cookie closet filled with cases of cookies -"

John: Yeah.

Hank: " - and not eat at least one cookie! Like, I am only human!" 

John: Yeah. I feel like you should start out with the real reason. Right?

Hank: Right, start there.

John: And then you see if that flies. So you start out and you say, "Listen. I would like to access the cookie closet because I'm a human being and I love cookies." And then if the person who has the keys to the cookie closet says, like, "I'm sorry, that's not a good enough reason." I think you come back the next day and you say, "well, I would like to access the cookie closet today because I'd like to give some - I'd like to have some of the cookies for myself but also to enjoy them with my aunt, who's going through a hard time." It doesn't matter if this is true or not. And then if that doesn't work, then you've got to go deeper and deeper into progressively crazier lies until you're like, "I'm sorry, I need to access the cookies, it is a matter of national security." 

Hank: What - like, what are the cookies tend to be used for? Like, I feel like if I'm working at a Girl Scout council, we've got a cookie closet, the cookie closet is probably there for entertaining guests, because when people are coming to speak at the Girl Scout council -

John: Right.

Hank: - or they're coming to have a meeting with you about marketing or whatever, there's, you're like - the people coming to the Girl Scout council are expecting cookies, because this is what Girl Scouts are most known for, apparently. And so you have to break out the cookies for when guests come. So you need to be getting guests into the office who are important to the Girl Scout council's business -

John: Yeah.

Hank: - and then you go and you're like, "our guest who is an important person in the community who's been a supporter of the Girl Scouts is visiting. We've got to get some Tagalongs up in here."

John: Right, right. I mean, I like that idea too, Hank, because then the guest of honor eats like two of the Thin Mints or Tagalongs or whatever and then you're like, "okay, listen, we don't want to just let this sleeve of cookies rot."

Hank: John.

John: "So I have a good home for them. My home."

Hank: John. 

John: Yeah.

Hank: I have discovered something that has - I thought I was crazy. 

John: Okay?

Hank: I thought I was broken and wrong -

John: Uh-huh?

Hank: - and that my brain had made a thing where there was no thing. There are two different companies that make Girl Scout cookies.

John: What?

Hank: There is ABC Bakers and there's Little Brownie Bakers. 

John: Oh, wow.

Hank: And Little Brownie Bakers makes Girl Scout cookies here in Missoula. They're where we get them from, and almost all of Florida also, it's - they supply by far the most area of the United States. But ABC Bakers supplies Orlando where we grew up.

John: Oh! 

Hank: And so when I'm eating - I've always - ever since I moved to Montana I've been like, "Thin Mints are different! They're just different here!"

John: Mmm. 

Hank: And I thought that I was crazy - but I'm not! It's really a thing! They're different! Thin Mints in Montana are different from Thin Mints in Orlando. Woah!

John: Wow. 

Hank: All of them! 

John: Wow. That's - I mean, so basically you're saying - I've got to look up where I am. 

Hank: Indianapolis, you have - wait. Where is Indianapolis? I think that all of Indiana is different from Orlando. 

John: It's in the middle of Indiana. Yeah. So we've got the ones that are not the Orlando Thin Mints.

Hank: Correct! You have different Thin Mints! And also -

John: Wow. I mean, my palate is not discerning enough to have noticed, but I would like to congratulate you on that. 

Hank: And also Orlando didn't even have Tagalongs. They're called Peanut Butter Patties in Orlando. 

John: I think that they've actually universally changed the name. 

Hank: Oh. Okay. 



 Sponsors (38:51)



John: But regardless, today's podcast is brought to you by Orlando Thin Mints. Orlando Thin Mints! Not available in Missoula. 

Hank: No! No, they're different, and I think that I like the Orlando ones better, John! This podcast is also brought to you by John Green's car rat. John Green's car rat would like to know where we're going today! 

John: [laughing] This podcast is, in addition, brought to you by fog lightning. Fog lightning! A natural disaster I don't have to worry about. 

Hank: And finally, this podcast is brought to you by that unknown vape juice smell. 

John: Oh, god. 

Hank: It came out of someone's lungs and now I'm really curious what it is! 

John: Oh, good lord. We also have a real sponsor today.

Hank: We do.

John: And we'd like to say a huge thank you to our actual sponsor, Backblaze. 

Hank: So John, you know how there's all the stuff on your computer that's extraordinarily important? 

John: Yes.

Hank: And you know how sometimes hard drives just stop working without any notice? Or like, your house gets struck by lightning, or like, someone steals your computer or any of a number of - or you leave it on an airplane, like I've never done that before. 

John: I was going to say, the most likely thing is that you leave your computer on an airplane and never forgive yourself. That's the Hank Green story. 

Hank: [laughing] So Backblaze exists to make this much less of a worrying problem, and they do it for both Macs and PCs for five dollars a month. Five dollars a month is like how much you spend on shampoo, on coffee, barely, like you barely - spend five dollars on coffee a day for some people! And it is such a huge load off your mind to have this service. 

John: It's an incredible service. It backs up your documents, your music, your photos, your videos - everything that you make. They have restored over 26 billion files. 

Hank: Yeah! 

John: If you are worried - and you should be - about losing the draft of your novel, which is an incessant worry of mine that I've been freed from in the last three months, but whatever you don't want to lose, you won't have to lose if you just get Backblaze. So go to backblaze.com/dearjohn , that's backblaze.com/dearjohn and sign up for Backblaze and never have to worry again about your files being backed up. 

Hank: And it's possible that you could be one of those - like, your files could be one of those - the file that you needed, the picture your kid or the draft of the thing or the thing for your company, it could be one of 26 billion files that Backblaze has recovered, and if you go to backblaze.com/dearhank you can go and we'll get credit for you checking out Backblaze, which we'll very much appreciate. You can also restore by mail, so like, if your whole system crashes and you want to get all your stuff, instead of trying to download all of it off of the internet they'll actually send you a drive, and you can restore from a hard drive and if you send that hard drive back to them it doesn't even cost you anything extra. So that's amazing.

John: Pretty cool. Backblaze.com/dearjohn.

Hank: Backblaze.com/dearhank. 

John: [laughing] They do both work. 



 Response 1 (42:02)



John: Hank, before we get to the all important news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon - and thank you again, Backblaze, for sponsoring today's podcast, before we get to the news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon, I want to give you a few updates. 

Hank: Alright.

John: First we have two corrections from Carolines.

Hank: Oh! Carolines - multiple questions.

John: They're both from Carolines. Different Carolines -

Hank: Okay, different Carolines. 

John: Caroline writes, "Dear John and Hank, I'm not sure whether the following counts as a correction, but in a recent episode of the pod a listener wrote in wondering about a hamster's ability to survive in the wild, and imagine my disappointment when both brothers failed to mention the true name of the Syrian hamster." So the true name for the Syrian hamster, Hank, the Arabic name literally translated, is "Mister Saddlebags." 

Hank: [laughs] Oh my god! That's real cute! 

John: Yup.

Hank: Mister Saddlebags!

John: Mister Saddlebags. Our other correction coming from Caroline, "Dear John and Hank, I'm a long time listener and a big fan, but the most recent episode discussing Benjamin Harrison has left me a little bothered. I volunteer as a docent - "

Hank: Oh my god!

John: " - at the President Benjamin Harrison site and my heart broke when Hank said -" 

Hank: You know...

John: "- that Harrison might be at the end of the list of presidents people remember." I should also add here, Hank, that I have many friends who work at the Benjamin Harrison house, and I do not understand how I got into this pickle. I have heard from countless people I know in real life who are horrified by our complete failure to reflect the many accomplishments of President Benjamin Harrison. "To suggest that he did hardly anything is a disgrace to America's only Hoosier president," Caroline writes. "Quick facts include a huge expansion of America's Navy, creating America's second to fourth national parks, including Yosemite, attempts to protect the early environment and early trust busting efforts including the McKinley tariff and the Sherman anti-trust act. Also, John, Harrison was one of the less corrupt presidents! He actually shunned the practice of appointing people to office based off of pressures from his party and instead made a point to appoint those from all sides including appointing some of the first African Americans to political positions. Harrison is often overlooked because there was no crisis to solve at the time, he wasn't involved in some awful conspiracy, and didn't raise America out of disaster. He kept the course steady during his time in office. Especially John but Hank as well, you have to come visit the President Benjamin Harrison site to learn what's up. It's in downtown Indianapolis so it shouldn't be a problem. Ask for Lucas. He's my boss and he's great." 

Hank: Well I now want very-  [laughs] very much to be like, "Hello, I'm Hank. I was told to talk to Lucas. [both laugh] I want to make some kind of application that like - type in all the presidents' names you know and then do some analysis to figure out who the least known president is. Is it Chester Arthur? Is it Warren Harding? Is it Rutherford B. Hayes? Is it -

John: Well, Caroline's argument is that regardless of whether Benjamin is a lesser known president, he shouldn't be, and as a Hoosier I should have called you to task. 

Hank: Okay.

John: And I apologize.

Hank: Well, I mean - stating a fact is different from agreeing that that fact should be the way that it is. And I wasn't saying that I think this person should be the least well known president, whose name I cannot remember at the particular moment. Harrison. Some Harrison. Which Harrison is it, I think there were two of them? 

John: Okay. Alright, we've got -

Hank: William Henry Harrison was president, right, but that's not who we're talking about. Who were we talking about? 

John: We're moving on, Hank, because you're -

Hank: Benjamin Harrison! 

John: You're digging a hole deeper and deeper. 



 Response 2 (45:37)



John: There's a couple responses I also wanted to get to, including a response from Molly who had to make the Power Point for the guy Rick who was retiring and it was like, her first day on the job and she had to make a retirement Power Point for a stranger. "Dear John and Hank, just as an update about the Power Point, I was able to scrape together some blurry pictures including some of him with his family, I think -" 

Hank: Oh no. 

John: " - and one of them holding a baby. Whose baby? Hell if I know."

Hank: Oh god, this actually happened. This actually happened.

John: "I found out that his nickname was "Teflon Rick" because nothing ever sticks to him."

Hank: Wait.

John: "Still not entirely convinced that the guy I talked to wasn't messing with me on that one. It was a hiking themed presentation about the next adventure and the opening title was 12 Years Here, Teflon Rick exclamation point. People seemed properly apathetic to the whole thing while they ate their barbecue. Thanks for the read, Molly." 

Hank: Wait, so what - why are people trying to stick stuff to Rick? 

John: I don't know! I mean, also, I don't know that being named Teflon Rick is good news. I hope Rick listens to the pod and he writes in. 

Hank: Yeah, we really want to know why are people trying to make things stick to you, whether actually physically or like, the murder rap, or whatever, like, the crime that Rick may or may not have done. I'm confused. 



 Response 3 (46:48)



Hank: We've also got some information from Sarah, who says, "Dear Brothers Green, Since y'all were talking about the illustrious Indianapolis cemetery I thought we would share the sign in the cemetery of the town I grew up in. It says, "Thanks for visiting! Come back when you can stay longer. Gravesites available." 

John: [laughs] We'll put that up on the Patreon. It's a pretty great -

Hank: Yeah, it's good.

John: It's a pretty great sign over at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn.



 Response 4 (47:14)



John: Last response we need to get to, Hank, is from Nielly. You may remember - this was a while back on the pod -

Hank: Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. 

John: - but somebody wrote in saying that they were really struggling with the male dominated STEM program that they were in -

Hank: Mmhmm. 

John: And they wrote an update. "Nearly two years ago I sent an email expressing my frustrations about being in a male dominated STEM program. I wanted advice on whether I should stay or not. But I stayed, and it was the best decision ever! I'd just finished my first year when I was getting ready to drop out, but I stayed, deciding to see what could come of the second year. There were new people in the second year, and guess who wasn't upsetty-spaghetti anymore because there was a new girl, and we both basically rule STEM now! I mean that literally. She's the president of our TSA chapter and everyone in the engineering program is in TSA, and look, I don't want to explain the social hierarchy. I don't like long emails. We just got out of school STEM certified too, and not to throw shade at the STEM academics team, but we basically convinced a board of actual adults that we knew what we were doing with LCDs and I built a solar-powered stoplight and my engineering teacher is essentially my mother now."

Hank: [laughing] Oh god.

John: "I've done so many things, I love so many people, staying was the best decision I've made." I mean, that was just a great email. It made me so happy.

Hank: Yeah.

John: So, thank you Nielly.

Hank: That's really wonderful. 



 News from Mars and AFC Wimbledon (48:31)



Hank: John.

John: Yes.

Hank: You got any AFC Wimbledon news for me? How - did they play the MK Dons yet? Has that happened? 

John: Hank. Hank.

Hank: Yeah.

John: There is nothing Dons about the franchise currently plying its trade in Milton Keynes. 

Hank: Sorry, sorry. 

John: Okay.

Hank: My apologies.

John: You're welcome. They did. They played the franchise currently plying its trade in Milton Keynes. It was a - I listened to it. I watched the first half on my iFollow app. I listened to the second half on the radio WDON hoping for a change in luck. But alas it was a nil - nil draw. Right - like, the 88th minute Andy Barcham had a wonderful opportunity to win the game -

Hank: Ah!

John: - for AFC Wimbledon, but it wasn't to be. You know - look. A point away from hom is not a disastrous result. The problem is that AFC Wimbledon are now 26 games into their League One season and that means there are only 20 games left and we are currently sitting two points adrift of safety. So we have 28 points. The Milton Keynes team and a couple other teams have 29 or 30.

Hank: Mm. 

John: And we're in - we need to get up to 20th place, Hank. We just need to finish in 20th and not get relegated. So it's getting - there's 20 games left in the season. A lot can happen. But I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge that I was getting nervous. 

Hank: Um, well. I feel like you guys are kind of holding on there, it's not like you're at the bottom of the bottom of the bottom. Kind of holding on. 

John: That's true. It could be worse. It could be worse. But, um -

Hank: And if you get relegated do you make a lot less money? 

John: Yeah, also it's just, it's hard to get up to the third tier. 

Hank: Yeah.

John: Right? Like, you don't want to get relegated because then you have to try to get up again, either through direct promotion or through the playoffs, which is always a crapshoot. 

Hank: Mmhmm.

John: If we could just finish in 20th and then keep one more season in League One and then we'll have our stadium built, and anything is possible. 

Hank: Alright.

John: So that's the news from AFC Wimbledon. All the games are big games now. 20 games left in the season. What's the news from Mars?

Hank: Uh, you know how Mars has a lot of water on it, it turns out. We figured this out, you know, a couple decades ago and keep finding new water in new places. 

John: Yeah.

Hank: But one of the things that's always been a little bit questioney is how that water exists. So does it exist sort of in like, mineralized salts where it's not really easy to get at, or is it sort of like just another piece of dirt, so like your dirt is part, ice part dirt which actually would be really hard, like kind of permafrost-y, you'd have to like, scoop it up and like, melt the ice, and then you'd have a bunch of mud, and you have to somehow get the dirt out and you get the water out and so that's really complicated and maybe there's a bunch of rocks.

John: Mmhmm.

Hank: So you have like, really rocky ice chunks that - this would be hard to work with if you were on Mars and wanted to get water. So that's a lot of what we've found is just sort of like, just below the surface there's a lot of little pieces of ice mixed in with the dirt. And that's good. It's nice to have any kind of water, but it would be a lot better if there was like, clean, fresh, not salty, not mixed with a bunch of dirt or rocks water.

John: Right. 

Hank: So recently a paper came out. Some researchers looked at, with like, high resolution artificial color images, they looked at images from the Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter, and were able to identify in areas where there had been like, basically what you would see like at the Grand Canyon where you would see the layers of, like, sedimentary rock laid down?

John: Yeah.

Hank: They were able to identify layers where it was just like a pure ice layer, and we're talking, like, tens of meters thick of pure water ice. 

John: Wow.

Hank: With no rock inclusions or anything. And that's just like - you know, it's significantly below the surface, but it's on the order of like, reachable. Like, meters down. And so there is not just water on Mars, but there is also like, clean, not mixed with anything else water ice, and the way that that happens is the same way that it would happen on Earth, which is snow would fall in the same place year after year after year, and then that snow would get compressed and then it wouldn't evaporate or melt or anything, it would just keep getting compressed until it became ice in the way that a glacier would. And then after that, sediments were laid down on top of it, probably through wind, probably. And so there's a bunch of that and it's indication both of like, a lot of precipitation on Mars, but also good news for people who want to go to Mars some day and have clean water to drink but also to convert into hydrogen and oxygen for fuel, but also to breathe. So that's a thing, and it's real. Lots of big slabs of clean water ice. 

John: So, I was reading about this, Hank, because I've become a little bit of a Mars fan. 

Hank: Nice! 

John: And the thing that struck me, reading about it is that yes, this is sweet, clean water ice, but isn't it also really far away from where humans would likely be if they were going to go to Mars? Like, wouldn't humans probably live pretty close to the equator and this is pretty far from the equator? 

Hank: Um, yes, where humans would be actually is up for debate. Like, whether we would be close to the equator because the weather is a little better there, maybe, but like really, weather probably isn't that big of a deal. Like, it's pretty cold and crappy on Mars wherever you go.

John: Right, because the weather is bad no matter where you are, so what's the difference between super cold and super cold?

Hank: Yeah.

John: That's a question I have to ask myself every morning.

Hank: Yeah, the much more interesting thing is like, versus how nice the weather would be, is how interesting it would be scientifically. 

John: Mmhmm.

Hank: So areas where there were long standing pools of water, lakes, oceans, rivers. Things like that are probably going to be the places where we'll be most interested in exploring. 

John: Ah. Interesting. Interesting! Well, good luck to you.

Hank: Oh, thank you very much.

John: And may it not be until 2028.



 Outro and Credits (55:02)



[outro music plays] 

John: So, Hank, thank you for podding with me. What did we learn today? 

Hank: Oh gosh, John, we learned that you ought to not litter. 

John: Yeah. We also learned that you can't keep a stolen bass clarinet just because you didn't steal it. 

Hank: And we learned that Thin Mints and Thin Mints are different depending on where you live! 

John: And we learned that Hank's new book truly is excellent. 

Hank: Oh thanks, thanks John. 

John: It's true.

Hank: And we also learned that, man, you've got to back your files up, because it's dangerous. It's a dangerous world out there. Thanks Backblaze for sponsoring.

John: That's right, backblaze.com/dearjohn! 

Hank: Backblaze.com/dearhank. 

John: Thanks again, Hank. Thanks everybody for listening. If you want to find out more about our podcast or listen to our weekly terrible podcast, This Week in Ryans, you can do that over at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn. Thanks again to everybody for listening. Hank, why don't you read the credits? 

Hank: This podcast is edited by Nicholas Jenkins. It's produced by Rosianna Halse Rojas and Sheridan Gibson. Our head of community and communications is Victoria Bongiorno. The theme music that you're hearing right now and at the beginning of the podcast and at the beginning of This Week in Ryans is by the great Gunnarolla. And as they say in our hometown -

John and Hank together: Don't forget to be awesome. 

[outro music ends]