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If you're typically frustrated or even outraged by religion you might enjoy learning that there are clergy members out there with the same emotions. My uncle is a minister in rural Kansas. He believes in Jesus Christ, he believes in waiting until marriage to have sex, and he reads about religion as much as a I read about sexuality. In this episode I get to have a very loving and gentle conversation with him about masturbation, anal sex, homosexuality, sin, grace, and judgment. We laugh, he tears up, I challenge scripture, he shows compassion. I hope you enjoy. Ancora imparo.


Sexplanations podcast, episode 15, I'm Dr. Lindsey Doe, clinical sexologist, host of the YouTube channel Sexplanations and this podcast by the same name.  Joining me today is my uncle, Keith.  You are my mother's younger brother and uhh... let's see, what can I say about you?  I remember a story from my childhood where I think I said a swear word and you guided me, you were like a really great adult figure who said, "Don't say that word."  What other memories do I have?  I think I visited you when you were in seminary school and I got my first UTI-urinary tract infection-and I didn't know what was going on and I was at your house so I just kept going back and forth to the bathroom.

K: I don't remember any of that.

L: Well, yeah that's okay, you had nothing to do with it.  It was just my body.

K: I do remember when you were very young, before Ryan was born, just before.
L: My brother.  My younger brother.

K: Ryna, your brother was born.  I went and helped your parents packing up, got ready to move down to Florida, and I sat down and you crawled up in my lap and went to sleep.

L: Awww.  That's cute.  Aww.  Well, today I have invited you on to the Sexplanations podcast because you are a minister in Kansas, rural, rural, rural Kansas, and I feel like you're one of the few people that I can talk to religion about, and have an intellectual conversation to kind of pull apart what's going on in the Bible, and what's going on in society and have a, you know, a rational, loving dialogue where sex meets religion.

K: Uh, we'll see.

L: *laughs* We'll see.  No it's gonna be rational and loving. Alright, um, first, before we do that, a shout-out to Laura Shuester Palmniks and Donna Flint Madeo Sullivan and the Millers for being our boss level Sexplanauts.  They go to and get this cool perk, you can do the same thing, sponsor unscripted sex education like we're doing today, and get a test question in their honor.  Do you wanna ask me a test question, a multiple choice question about sex and religion, or do you want me to ask you one?

K: I want you to ask me one.

L: Okay.  I don't know if you're familiar with the Mormon religion,

K: Not heavily, but go on.

L: The Latter Day Saints.  So I am told there's this concept called soaking, and I'm gonna give you possible definitions for it, and you tell me which one you think is the meaning of soaking.

K: Soaking? S-O-A-K-I-N-G?

L: Yes.  Soaking.

K: Ok.

L: I have heard this connected to the Mormon religion, and I have spoken with young people who identify themselves as Latter Day Saints and they say they do not know what this is, so I cannot...

K: You can't verify it either way.

L: I can't verify it.  But the concept still exists, this idea of soaking.  So, is it A: Being in the same swimming pool, and thinking that you can get a person pregnant if you ejaculate.  B: Putting a penis in a vagina, but not moving around, therefore believing it is not intercourse.  C: Putting a finger in a vagina and not moving it around, or D: Oral sex, a penis in a mouth, that isn't perceived as sex.

K: Boy, I have no clue.  I don't even know where I go with that.  If I had to pick any of them, I'd probably, I guess I'd probably pick B, if I'm thinking right that it was putting a penis in a vagina and not moving it around.  That would be my guess, but I have no clue.

L: You got it right!

K: Well, I got lucky.

L: Yeah, if we know, if we, if any of you are Mormons or Latter Day Saints, if that's how you identify yourselves, please let us know if soaking is a thing you've come across.  This idea, right, that you can penetrate but it doesn't equate to sex, therefore you have not sinned, therefore you, no act prior to marriage that would get you in trouble: soaking.  You're nodding your head, what to you think?

K: You know, you know, whatever.  I mean you can come up with all sorts of ways of doing things, and justifying why you do 'em, so I guess that makes sense, it.. but yeah.

L: Yeah.  Have you come across similar things, in your congregation or in your experience just being around the church where people have justified certain sexual behaviors?