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What would happen if all mosquitoes die? What do I do about my surprise YouTube celebrity boyfriend? What's the truth about John Lennon's "Imagine"? And more!

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 (00:00) to (02:00)


H: Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

J: Or as I prefer to think of it, Dear John and Hank.

H: It's a comedy podcast about death and also other stuff, in which two brothers, Hank and John Green, give you dubious advice, bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon, answer your questions, and I forgot....

J: Give you dubious advice.  

H: Give you dubi--(laughs).  How ya doing, John?  

J: I'm alright.  I'm proofreading right now, or I'm like, dealing with the proofreader's queries for Turtles All the Way Down, my new book coming out October 10th, available for pre-order now at

H: So when people--like, when you have, when there's something spelled wrong in your book, they're like, hey, did you want to keep this spelled wrong or do you wanna, like, have it be spelled right now?  

J: That is one of the issues, but it's also, like, should you capitalize the 'T' in 'FaceTime' is an issue.  Then there's the big, there's big difficult questions like, you know, word choice questions between what is technically the correct word and the word that everyone says, like, which is better to pick in that situation and it really, proofreading gets down to like, those parts of grammar where you're forced to think about why grammar exists, which is sort of interesting but also I've only had like, three hours of sleep so it's a little exhausting right now.  How are you?

H: Good.  John, do you know about 80%ing?  

J: Uh, no, what is 80%ing?  

H: 80%ing is the idea that the first 80% of the work is actually only 20% of the work and the last 20% is like 80% of the work, so getting 80% of the way there is 20% and the getting, the last 20% is like, 80% of the work and so, what you should do is just forget about that last 20% and say, look, if there's a bunch of words spelled wrong in this book, that's cause I only wanted to get 80% of the way there.

 (02:00) to (04:00)

I had other stuff to do.  I had to sleep.  I have children.  I have a podcast with my brother Hank.  I have to be sharp and I have to be good and funny and I'm not gonna worry about whether FaceTime has a capital 'T'.

J: Well, I'll tell you what, Hank, I 80% 99% of my professional life.  I 80% every vlogbrothers video for the last eight years, so just let me have this one thing that I spend a lot of time on.

H: I should just make a video on 80%ing and it should just end like, 80% of the way through, just stop, no 'I'll see you on Tuesday', just, yeah.  

J: That's a good--it's conceptually strong.  I don't know if I would actually enjoy watching it, though.  

H: Oh, John.  101 episodes.  How are you feeling?

J: I--great.  Couldn't be happier.  Um, just a little bit tired due to the lack of the sleeping.  I think that I'm not gonna--I will get some sleep once this book goes into production in mid-August, but until then, I'm just gonna be, I'm just gonna be the Little Engine that Could.  Hank, would you like a short poem for today?

H: Hey, yes, I would.  

J: Alright, this short poem is from Emily Bronte, but it was published under her known nom de plume, Ellis Bell, and also I'm not gonna read the whole thing.  It was sent to me by a listener named Sylvia who suggested it because we always talk about that Emily Dickinson poem, with "Hope is the Thing With Feathers" and she wanted me to read this poem because it's much more negative about hope, but I'm only going to read the final stanza.  

Hope, whose whisper would have given balm to all my frenzied pain
Stretched her wings and soared to heaven
Went and ne'er returned again.

"Hope" by Emily Bronte.  A story about hope leaving and never returning.  

H: Hope is the thing with feathers.  It flies away from you and does not come back.  

J: That's right.  

H: Alright, John.  We got a first question from Ben, who asks,  "Dear Hank and mainly John, where would I pre-order a paperback version of your book Turtles All the Way Down that's coming out?

 (04:00) to (06:00)

My girlfriend and I both greatly dislike hardcover books.  I like turtles, Ben."

J: Alright, uh, heh.  Unfortunately--

H: Do you have bad news for Ben?

J: I have bad news for Ben, but then I also have more bad news for Ben.  The first piece of bad news is that my book Turtles All the Way Down is not very deeply concerned with turtles.

H: But it's like turtle-free, it's like--how many turtles are in the book, John?  Is it just like, a low turtle book?

J: I would say it's not a no-turtle book, but it's definitely a low turtle book, so if you're looking for a high turtle book, I actually have a recommendation.

H: Yeah?  

J: Yeah, which is rare, but I do.  I have a good recommendation of a turtle-heavy book.  It's called The People in the Trees and it's by Hanya Yanagihara and it's very good, so if you're looking for a turtle book, check that one out.  However, if you're looking to read my new book in paperback, I would advise patience.  So the reason books come out in hardcover before they come out in paperback is, uh, there's a bunch of reasons, but the main one is that hardcover books are more expensive and the royalties are better, much, much, much better for authors, so authors are usually in favor of hardcovers coming out before paperbacks.  One thing that you could do, though, is you could rip off the hard cover and then just kind of glue all the pages together and then put on your own soft cover and that might suit your interests better?  But I also, I think hardcover books are beautiful and this book will be very beautiful.  I have seen some of the like, comps for what it's gonna look like.

H: Have you seen a cover?

J: And it's good.  I have seen a cover, but I've also seen the--all the little detailed stuff that I really love in books, the way they bind the books, the quality of the paper, all that stuff is really good, like, it's finally as--in terms of a physical item, it's finally the--my--like, all of my dreams coming true.  

 (06:00) to (08:00)

So, I'm sorry, Ben, but I also think that you're gonna like the physical book available for pre-order now at  

H: Um, I like the idea of just getting your Xacto knife out and being like, raa, raa.  That--those things are gone.  It's about personal preference.  

J: Yeah.

H: Yeah.  

J: Yeah, I won't be mad.  I mean, the book belongs to you, so do what you want with it, but the paperback will eventually come out and I'm sorry that it's going to take a while, but I have worked very hard and fought to make sure that the hardcover is relatively inexpensive.  In fact, cheaper than lots of paperback novels coming out these days.  This question comes from Maya, who writes, "Dear Green brothers, what would be the ecological effects if all mosquitoes died?  If there was a virus or something that eradicated all mosquitoes, would ecosystems go to chaos or would we get along fine?  I'm asking because mosquitoes are the devil's spawn and also they spread diseases that kill a lot of people.  Thanks for asking, Valar Morghulis but mosquitoes first, Maya."

H: Nice.  Mosquitoes--yeah.  All men must die, but mostly by men, I mean mosquitoes.  I, yeah, you know, first of all, it's not--we don't have to kill all mosquitoes.  There are so many species of mosquitoes that aren't the ones that bug us that much and there are only a few species of mosquitoes that transmit malaria and, which is the biggest mosquito problem and then, so you really only have to hit a couple of species for it to be a really big difference, but I think for the most part, we'd be okay.  Like, there's stuff that eats mosquitoes, but those things eat other things, too.  I--like, this idea that like, that all, like, the entire ecosystem is imbalanced and everything has its place, like, ticks?  No!  No!  Just, they should all die!  They don't do anything useful.  They just spread disease and suck blood.  Like--they work.  

 (08:00) to (10:00)

They function, ecologically.  They do a just fine job, but no, yeah, we could probably--we could definitely get rid of the mosquitoes that are the worst offenders without any problems.  In fact, we have tried and we continue to try and we have succeeded in some places.

J: Yeah, I mean, there used to be a lot of malaria in North America and now there's none, so there has been a lot of progress, but we have a long, long way to go.  There was actually an article in Nature about this, Hank, and it has a great--I won't read you the whole article, because like most articles in Nature, it's a bit of a difficult read, but it has a great sub-headline: "Eradicating any organism would have serious consequences for ecosystems, wouldn't it?  Not when it comes to mosquitoes."  

H: That's all you really need.  We did a SciShow on it, too, if you want to watch that.  It's probably a little more penatrable than any Nature article.  

J: Okay, Hank, we have another question and this one is one of those big difficult questions.  It comes from Ashley.

H: Hm, okay.

J: "Dear Brothers Green, I was babysitting for a family I don't know very well and the baby took his first steps while I was there."

H: Aww, that's cute.  

J: "Should I tell the parents?  Ashley."

H: Oh man.  No.  Definitely don't do that.

J: What!

H: Yeah, no, because like, everybody's always like, I don't know, I want to be there when Orin takes his first steps and I might not be and like, I'll be bummed if I'm not so like, just, like, who gets hurt by that lie of omission?  You don't have to be like, well, hey, guys, your baby definitely didn't take any steps while you were gone!  Not a walker, that one!

J: See, I would argue that um, if anything, you should lie in the other direction.  You should be like, listen, not only did your baby take his first steps, he also said his first word and it was "Ashley".  It was my name.  He looked me dead in the eyes and he said "Hello, Ashley.  I love you more than I love my mother," and that was all that he said.  It was weird.

H: And then he was like, and then he said, "I know they're only paying you $20/hr and that's crap.

 (10:00) to (12:00)

Don't accept it!  I'm worth so much more than that!"  That's what he said, that's all then he stopped and he clammed up and he hasn't said anything since, so I don't know, that's just--take what you will from that.

J: Walked all the way across the room, told me he did not approve of my compensation package, and then clammed right back up.  Anyway, really a pleasure to babysit for your astonishingly verbal, extremely mobile child.  See ya next time.

H: Is it in--is it possible that I could get some equity in this baby, 'cause uh, I put a lot in.  Just a low percentage, I don't know, how does it work?  

J: Is that how you think babies work, Hank, that like, you currently own 100% of Orin's future earnings?

H: I don't own 100% of Orin's future earnings but I definitely am entitled to a percentage.

J: I look forward to the conversation that you have with Orin when he enters the workforce.

H: No, no, no, it's not initial compensation.  It's only after I'm old and in the home when I expect him to kind of, to contribute to the keep Dad in diapers and you know, Scientific American subscriptions.  

J: Wait, you don't think our parents are expecting that, do you?

H: Uh, you know, I think it's gonna depend.  

J: I nominate you, as I do so often.  

H: Alright.

J: I just--just to be clear, though, Ashley, no.  No, no, no, no, you should not tell the parents that you saw the baby take his first steps.

H: Okay, John's come around and he's decided to--

J: Unless you are directly asked.

H: Yeah.

J: And then I guess maybe you have to say yes, but even then, probably not.

H: Yeah.  Yeah, John has abandoned the bit and he wants to make sure that you don't actually tell them.  This question comes from Bre, who asks, "Dear Hank and John, I recently started dating someone and everything's great.  He's super sweet and makes me laugh and I have a great time when I'm with him, but I recently found out that he has a not-so-tiny following online.  He's somewhat of a popular YouTube person and he has a decent amount of Twitter followers, enough to where people notice and stop him when we're out and they want pictures.

 (12:00) to (14:00)

I never wanted a life in the public eye and with the growing maliciousness of the YouTube community, I'm not sure that I could handle it.  How do I handle this budding relationship while also handling keeping myself out of the public eye if that is even possible?  Completing lacking a sign-off, Bre."
Oh my.  Surprise YouTube celebrity boyfriend.

J: Ehhh.  Yeah.  I mean.  I feel like that's a great question for our spouses because they both--

H: Yeah, yeah.

J: --unexpectedly developed surprise YouTube husbands well into the relationship.  

H: Yep.

J: But at least with that, there was a measure of, I don't know, there was a little bit of buy-in, like Sarah was in favor of Brotherhood 2.0 as a concept.

H: Sure, yeah.  It was like, and it happened somewhat gradually.  It wasn't like, and surprise!  There were lots of decisions along the way.  

J: Right.

H: That--yeah, that were--that they were involved in.  

J: That said, it's hard.  

H: Yeah.

J: I think it's hard.

H: Yeah, I mean, it's also weird because I don't--like, I don't think that, you know, traditional celebrity is the same necessarily and so like, you're kind of in unmapped territory here, so I don't know that anyone has particularly good advice for you except for people who have been in this exact position before, but I will say that, you know, when you talk about the maliciousness of the YouTube community, it isn't necessarily in that person's part of the community. 

J: Right.

H: There are lots of areas of YouTube that are, like, just kind and supportive and maybe are smaller, but are big enough that people will still get recognized at the grocery store or whatever, and that is a way that fame has changed, where, you know, 99% of people have no idea who your boyfriend is, probably, but 1% is a lot, like, you see more than 100 people if you go to the grocery store.

 (14:00) to (16:00)

Maybe at some grocery stores.  I feel like I do.  That place just is full of people and yeah, so it might--I think that it has to come down to the individual like, situation, but also like, that's a pretty--is that a cool thing?  Like, is that also kind of dope?  Like, is there also like opportunities that like, neat things will happen that you wouldn't otherwise have happen?  You get to have experiences and do things.

J: Yeah, I don't know.  I think it depends on the person, but I do think you have to be realistic that you are--

H: Yeah.

J: --at least until the moment when that, when the person you're dating starts talking about you online, I think you're relatively anonymous.  After that, you know, there is an element of not being fully anonymous and to be honest, this is something, in a way, Hank and I have never been through the worst parts of because we've never had like, a public break-up, which is where I think it's really hard and where you do see some viciousness at times, even in very supportive communities, so I totally get the concern, but I also think until and unless you're explicitly mentioned, I think you can kind of fly under the radar.  

H: Yeah, there are certain kinds of YouTube content that like, ask for all that person's life to be laid out in front of everyone and if you were in a relationship with one of those people, you would know it.  Like, you would know from the beginning 'cause the camera would be out all the time, but a lot of people just like, make videos that are about a certain thing and they aren't about their life and so you don't necess--you don't have to be a part of their, like, public narrative.

J: Right, right.  Speaking of public narratives, Hank, I want to answer this question.  It comes from Rebekah, who writes, "Dear John and Hank, I love your podcast and it enriches my life."  Rebekah, that is far too kind.  Literally.  It is too kind about--

H: Yeah.

J: --our completely suboptimal podcast.  "I'm quite the Beatles fan and the other day when I was listening to John Lennon's "Imagine", my brother joined me and said that it was a wonderful song, but he didn't like the political message it was sending and something about communism.

 (16:00) to (18:00)

My question is, what political message does "Imagine" send out, and also, can I continue enjoying it once I know the truth behind it?  Thankful for any advice, Rebekah."  So there's two questions here.

H: Yeah.  Also, it's--yeah.  I want everybody to keep on the lookout for my new YouTube video, "The Truth About John Lennon's Imagine".  

J: God.  Oh, God.  That is such a genre of YouTube videos.  There's two questions here.  One is, can you enjoy art that you find politically reprehensible, and the other question is, is John Lennon's "Imagine" a communist song, and if so, is that so bad?  

H: Yeah, I mean, first of all, even, like, I don't know that you could find th--well, I feel like the, yeah, I can definitely not enjoy content because of the message it sends, yeah.  

J: Yes, but you also--I also think that like, sometimes, you can enjoy content despite the message it sends.

H: Right.  

J: Like, I can like a song even if there are things in it that I find objectionable.

H: Sure, sure.  

J: The answer to "Is Imagine a communist song?" is yeah.  

H: Yeah.  "Imagine no possessions."

J: Yeah.  I wonder if you can.  "No need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of man."  That's pretty--

H: Yeah.

J: That's pretty Lenin-y.  That's got a Lenin-y vibe.  "Nothing to kill or die for," that's less Lenin-y.  

H: There's lots of things to kill and die for if you're in communist Russia.  

J: But they do say "No religion, too".

H: Yeah.  Which is pretty, like, that feels, whenever, you know, whenever I hear that song, I like, think about in the 60s saying like, imagine no religion.  Like, whoa!  Hold on there, bucko, that's a danger time that you've entered, but yeah.  

 (18:00) to (20:00)

People, you know, people heard the--and I think part of the message of "Imagine" and what's nice about the song is that it isn't saying, like, hey, there shouldn't be religion.  There shouldn't be possessions.  It's just saying, let's question this.  Let's look at it for a second and see what like, where the thing is valuable and where it isn't and without saying like, you know, without questioning it, then you don't ever get a chance to really even appreciate the good things that might come from things, so but, in the end, he does say "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.  I hope someday you'll join us," and kind of saying, all of these things I asked you to imagine are things that I want to happen, but yeah, I mean, it's a pretty commie song, but that doesn't mean it's not beautiful.  

J: Well, also, it also doesn't mean that it's wrong.  

H: Right, yeah, yeah.

J: I--you know, I don't know.  I don't--I'm not gonna--I'm not gonna get into ideology here.  I do want to point out though that Hank is completely correct about the difference about saying "Imagine no religion" in 19--I'm gonna guess like '72 or '73, when I'm gonna guess that song came out, versus today, which is that then, the vast majority of people in the United States at least did to church every week and now, it is fewer than 40% and well under 40%, so, yeah.

H: Yeah.  1971, John, good job.

J: Things have changed.  Thank you.  Well, I know when the Beatles broke up and unfortunately, I know when John Lennon was assassinated, so I knew it was somewhere in there.  Let's move on to another question, Hank.  This is another one I really wanted to answer today.

H: Alright.

J: It comes from Peter, who writes, "Dear John and Hank, I'm a teenaged boy who is a longtime fan of the pod and I have a conundrum.  I'm very interested in knitting.  However, I am scared that if I try to learn how to knit, I will be judged as a wuss or a sissy.  How do I solve this problem?

 (20:00) to (22:00)

The jaws of death will engulf you, Peter."  Well, Peter, you've already got the sign-off thing figured out, and that's great.  

H: I don't think that--there's nothing you can do here.  If you're interested in a thing and you're worried about what people are gonna think about you, you either don't do the thing because the fear is too great or you do it and you deal with it and you look at those people and you think, why are you so silly?  This is like, what about this particular activity, which, by the way, involves giant like, basically weapons that sometimes TSA won't even let you bring on a plane, how is this in particular, like, what happened in society that this is a thing that is supposed to be feminine when, like, clearly it has no gender.  

J: Right, yeah, I mean, but it is--it is also hard when you are a teenager--

H: Sure!  Yeah.

J: --to stand up to gender constructions and to stand up to those messages that tell you that you're going to be less of a person worth valuing if you do this or do that.  That said, it is awesome, it is courageous, and it makes the world better and it makes your life better in the long run, so I encourage you to knit.  Knit like a mofo.  Just Charizard that mofo, to go all the way back to the beginning of this podcast.  I hope you find it, man, I hope you find the will to knit.  I think that would be awesome.

H: And I think you also gotta recognize that what's gonna happen to you is what happens to 95% of knitters, is like, you figure it out and you start doing it and then it's like, oh yeah, okay, I get it.  I don't really need to make sweaters for the rest of my life.

J: I don't know, actually.  You might not find that.  You might find that it--

H: But it's--

J:--is super fun and challenging and interesting to make sweaters.

H: Yeah, I'm just saying, that's what--that's what happens to most people, just having watched my friends go through their knitting craze, but also that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not going to come back later.

 (22:00) to (24:00)

You have a skill that's always there, ready for you to apply it, you know, especially post-Apocalypse.  Like, making a--like, making useful things out of strings is definitely a good thing to be able to do.  

J: Great point, Hank.  

H: Yeah.

J: Great point.  It reminds me, in fact, that today's podcast is brought to you by knitting.  Knitting, an amazing post-Apocalyptic talent.  

H: Ah, so good.  This podcast is also brought to you by turtle books.  Books about turtles!   They're books with high quantities of turtles, the recommended daily value, completely satisfied 150% of turtles, but--which is not John's book, Turtles All The Way Down.

J: Today's podcast is also brought to you by nothing to kill or die for.  Wouldn't that be nice.  

H: Wouldn't that be nice.  And finally, this podcast is brought to you by hey, John?

J: Yes?

H: Audible.

J: Oh, Audible.  The amazing thing where I listen to all of my audiobooks from.

H: That's--that is correct.  You know, John, I figure we gotta start out this podcast sponsorship so we should really just do the ones that everybody, like, it's not like you haven't heard about Audible, right?  Here's my thing that I think people probably wonder.  Why does Audible continue to sponsor so many podcasts when I like, obviously already know about Audible, right?  Two reasons.  One: Cause it's really great and helps podcasters make a living.  Two: Because maybe you're the person who's just been on the fence and that you've heard about Audible but you haven't quite signed up yet and they're trying to get that person who hasn't, so if you're thinking about it, now may be the chance to try and go and look and see if you want to get your free book.  Your free download that you can get with our link instead of any other podcast's link, and John, we have a link, as you know, and there are two, because there are always two, because you get to choose whether you wanna use 'dearhank' or 'dearjohn' at or  

 (24:00) to (26:00)

J: I'm not gonna try to bias you one way or another, although I will point out that allows you to just use the right side of that 'J-O-H-N' so obviously that's better but it's up to you.  Point being, you can get a free audiobook right now at and it could be The Fault in Our Stars, which was read by Kate Rudd, one of my favorite audiobook narrators.  She's amazingly talented.  She has lots and lots of books on Audible but The Fault in Our Stars is one of them.  You can also get Paper Towns or Looking for Alaska or any of my books on Audible or you can get something that Hank would like, like, I don't know--

H: Are you listening to anything on Audible right now, John?

J: I'm listening to Jane Austen's Persuasion.  

H: Oh, look at that.  

J: Yeah.  

H: That's available.

J: It's good.  It's good.

H: I'm listening right now to the second book in the Expanse series, Caliban's War by James S. A. Corey, which is so good.  The book, the first one is also very good, and I love, like, when I'm listening to a series of books, I love, like, sticking--like, that it sticks with the same narrator and I get this feeling like the Harry Bosch series by Michael Connelly is like that, where you just like get so connected with the narrator and his voice for telling the story.  I also, I love that, and yeah, the Expanse series is fantastic.  The show is great and the books are great, and there's way more of the books than there is of the show, so you can be in the world longer, which is exciting for me, and I just finished The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, which also was fantastically read and very super frickin' interesting.  Everybo--I've been told over and over and over again that I needed to read this book, and I kind of sometimes have a hard time reading nonfiction on paper, but this was like, such a good cohesive story that kept driving through it and like, kept me wanting to listen to the next chapter that I was really glad I listened to it as an audiobook.

 (26:00) to (28:00)

J: Yeah, I loved that book.  I read it with words, but I'm sure the audiobook was good.  So again, that's or, my personal favorite, where you can get a free audiobook and a 30-day trial of Audible.  It really is a cool service and we thank them for sponsoring today's podcast.

H: Yeah, and they've got like, the crazy thing, like, I didn't even know this.  I was like, using Audible one day like, on the toilet, and it like--I went over and I suddenly realized that there's a bunch of content that isn't books that's available like articles from major news sources and like, Audible-specific content from like, Ashley Ford has a podcast where she interviews authors.  It's just great stuff.

J: Yeah.  Yeah.  Ashley Ford, of course, hosted one of the episodes of Dear Hank & John, when Hank was out on paternity leave, so--

H: Oh.  Yeah. 

J: She's great, and you can listen to her podcast at  Okay, let's go back to answering questions.  Hank.

H: Okay.

J: This question comes from Allison, who writes, "Dear John and Hank, I'm moving out of my parents' house, bachelor degree in hand, to a new state.  Birmingham, Alabama, actually.  You may know a thing or two about that place."  Hank was born there, I lived there for a long time.  "In the process of coming into my own adventuring out into this grown-up world, I've discovered that furniture is heckin' expensive.  Hundreds of dollars for a chair??  I've also realized that I'm vastly unprepared for this.  I don't know how taxes work.  I don't know how to set up WiFi at my house.  I'm curious--what were some of the things that you were blindsided by -slash- not expecting when you became real adults?  Also, if you have advice about moving to a new state, I'm all ears.  Later Vader, Allison."

H: I gotta say, the cost of furniture continues to shock me.

J: Oh man.  I remember when I bought my first couch with Sarah because before that I'd only ever purchased couches at garage sales and stuff.  

H: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

J: Sarah and I, when we moved to New York, we bought a couch and I was in Jennifer Convertibles to buy this couch and first off, I was like, Sarah, why are we at this fancy furniture store, and she was like, this is literally the cheapest furniture store that I would ever enter, and I was like, okay, and then secondly, I was like, can someone explain to me why this couch is $900?  

 (28:00) to (30:00)

J: Like, I still think, like, $900?  Like--what?  What is it, dude, does it turn into a bed?  Yes, as it happens, it did, but still!  

H: [laughs] Does it turn into a car?  

J: Yeah.

H: You can get a car! A car! For $900 and cars have like one couch and two chairs inside of them!

J: [laughs] And you can sometimes find a used one that runs for just over $900 so really, it is insane how expensive furniture is. On the other hand, a lot of work goes into making them etc. etc.

H: Yeah. And they're hard to move around. But what I will say is like- what sometimes you don't realize living in your parents' house: it took them decades to collect all the furniture they have. They didn't start out and buy it all at once, they probably had not so much furniture at all and probably, you know, had a bunch that they got at thrift stores or garage sales and then slowly got rid of the crappy things and replaced them with good things.

And it's important to know that not only can't you but you should not suddenly go into $20 000 of credit card debt furnishing a home. And- what else-

J: On that note, Hank, I just want to correct you real quickly and say that you implied that the stuff you get at garage sales isn't good and I would like to say for the record that I still have one of my garage sale couches and it remains in some ways- it is certainly not our most physically attractive couch, but I would argue it is our most comfortable couch.

H: Yeah. Rugs are also something that really shocked me and, like, this is a thing that I step on. I just walk on this all day long. Why is this so expensive?
Why am I gonna-

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