Hank: Hello, and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

Grace: Or as I like to call it, Dear Grace and Hank.

Hank: Uh, this is the weekly podcast where I, Hank Green, and usually John Green, but this week the amazing Grace Helbig answer your questions, give you dubious advice, and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. But first, Grace, do you have a poem for us?

Grace: Yes, I do. Here we go. Ready? It's an original.

Levon sells cartoon balloons in town. his family business thrives. Jesus blows up balloons all day sits on the porch swing watching them fly and Jesus he wants to go to Venus leaving Levon far behind take a balloon and go sailing while Levon, Levon slowly dies. so it's. there's a lot of symbolism it's um I wrote this in like third grade. This is actually, yeah, this is an excerpt from my diary.

I had a crush on this kid named Levon and I really, he didn't like me back so I wished that he would die.

Hank: And there's something about balloons. You liked balloons then too.

Grace: Yeah, I was at a kid's birthday party. It was, it got. complicated. Levon just didn't want any of this.

Hank: It would be, it would actually, how wonderful would it have been if you could have actually found, I should have people do that. Bring on your childhood poetry.

Grace: Oh my god. Can you imagine? Do you have any nearby? No, I have this that you can't see in this audio podcast, but it's a papoose hanging on my wall that I made in fourth grade when we were studying Native Americans in social studies.

Well, I take that back. My dad made it on my behalf for a project in 4th grade in which my teacher instantly knew that I didn't make it.

Hank: Yeah, no, I would not have said that that was something a 4th grader did.

Grace: No, not at all, but it has lasted till now. I'm 29 years old and I think I was 8.

Hank: And you've got that just in case a baby shows up.

Grace: Yeah, that's my baby bjorn. It's just a pile of sticks on the wall with some burlap strung to it.

Hank: And a yellowed piece of paper. Kaitlin That's a surprise. But she has her own podcast here on whatever platform you're using. to listen to this podcast. It's called Not Too Deep with Grace Helbig.

It's a lot like this podcast, except nothing at all like it. Because we talk about existential crises and death and dealing with grief and leaving your friends behind. And you specifically have titled your podcast in a way that if anything like that happens, you can quote the title of the podcast and turn it right around.

Grace: I mentally eject myself from those situations. Yeah, this podcast is essentially everything that gets repressed on my podcast. And I started my podcast as a. I left that podcast feeling Very vulnerable, and so I wanted to make a space on the podcast area that made people not feel vulnerable, that was just full of dumb.

Yeah, it's my favorite thing.

Hank: I like dumb too!

Grace: Thanks! It's one of my favorite ways to describe something in a complimentary way. If I say like, that's so dumb, I'm like, that's really great.

Hank: Yeah. Turn it around. Mm-hmm. It's like how hot's cool.

Grace: Hot's... Oh, yeah, wow! What? How being hot is cool?

Hank: No, like the word hot and the word cool mean the same thing. Dope.

Grace: Just us aging. ourselves in an audible way.

Hank: On fleek. Yeah, am I in fleek right now? I want to make a video about on fleek. I'm fascinated by on fleek.

Anyway. I don't get it. It's just another...

I have a whole series of thoughts. about not just on fleek but every word that means cool of which there are in every generation dozens and they last for such a small amount of time but they also sort of stick around a lot like hip and groovy. 

Grace: I try and use tuna saying that as a means to say cool that's tuna because there used to be a. I might still be on this reality show called Wicked Tuna. It was about these Boston tuna fishermen, and so it's called Wicked Tuna! And so I used to say things that were cool were Wicked Tuna, and then I just shortened it to Tuna.

It hasn't caught on the way like Fleek has, but...

Hank: You just need to get the Viners to get on your tuna trend.

Grace: I know, god damn. That's where all the trends start now on Vine, isn't it?

Hank: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Oh, good to know. My favorite is... Boffo?

I've never heard that before. And having watched a bunch of old movies, occasionally I will hear or see the word bafo. And I'll be like, this word!

Where did it go? Bring it back!

Grace: It sounds like a child with a speech impediment trying to say bravo.

Hank: But they're like, bafo. You're like, close enough kid. That might be where it comes from.

Grace: I wish that there was just an Italian little boy that started this trend. Bafo! Bafo! See?

It sounds just like it. Uh, yeah, words. I never know.

People are living for everything now.

Hank: I live for that.

Grace: Yeah, people live for that or they die.

Hank: Right.

Grace: So I don't understand.

Hank: It's just like happy and hot and cool.

Grace: Yeah, I know. It's just extremes. We're just all extremists, I guess.

Hank: Either we live for it or we die. Yep. No, that makes sense.

Grace: Yeah, it's very Shakespearean of these kids. Very Shakespearean.

Hank: Alright, do you want to answer a question? Yes!

Grace: Kendall asks, Dear Grace and Hank, If you were to create a hybrid of two animals, what would the two animals be and what would you call your new species? Smiley face emoticon. Oh, a hybrid of two animals.

Hank: What about like a scorpion?

Grace: No, already Vito.

Hank: And a pelican. Can you imagine? Like a pelican front and a scorpion back. But like...

Scorpelican.

Grace: Scorpelican. So basically we're just shipping animals right now. What's happening?

Hank: No! Well, I guess, because you do have to get them together to make the hybrid thing.

Grace: To mate, in some way.

Hank: So yeah, we are shipping animals.

Grace: Would you want, though, a pelican-sized, like, scorpion tail? Isn't that where the poison is?

Hank: Yeah. No, I wouldn't, I don't, if you were to create, that doesn't mean that I want to have one in my life. Oh. You deserve that.

I just want to see it. 

Grace: Okay, I get this game now. Yeah, what would I, what would I, okay, I think I'd want like an elephant seal, which, you know, Mamrie and I say that's kind of our spirit animal every now and then. An elephant seal probably mixed with like, I want to say like an eagle.

Hank: Elephant Seagull.

Grace: An elephant seagull?

Hank: No, now that's a seagull now. Darn it, that's just a mix of an elephant and a seagull.

Grace: That's just a. giant seagull. We just created a giant seagull. I know, that's true. An elephant seal is essentially an elephant and a seal already come together.

So I'm trying to make a hybrid of what is already a hybrid. That's wrong, I have to make something pure.

Hank: Oh no, an elephant seal is pure. You can't, you can't, just because we thought that they looked like those two things.

Grace: I don't mean to offend all of you elephant seals that download this podcast on a weekly basis. I sincerely don't mean to polarize you. Okay, let me think of something that's like more of a pure, this is where I'm like, what are animals? What animals exist?

Oh, well, hmm. Okay, see I keep choosing like I wanted to say a sea otter, but then I'm like that's already a hybrid. That's a seal on. a dog got together and they made a sea otter.

Hank: It's like my favorite animal of all time. Yeah, so you don't you want you want a seal and a dog to get together and make an animal. just it just happens that that's already happened.

Grace: Yeah, I think maybe this is just leading me to. believe that all I just want a sea otter in my life at some point. okay, what about a ladybug and a Giraffe, so it'd be like the teeny tiniest little giraffe of all time.

Hank: With like a carapace and it can fly. Yeah.

Grace: That sounds great.

Hank: A lady baraffe.

Grace: A lady baraffe. Rolls off the tongue. A lady raffe. Yeah, sounds great.

I'm into it. Or a Jerbug. 

Hank: I was thinking a gerbil when you said gerbug. I was like a bug gerbil.

Grace: Yeah, and then I started thinking, what could you put a gerbil with and make it more interesting? It's basically like, what animal could you add to an animal to make it a more interesting or more useful animal?

Hank: Yeah.

Grace: This could go on for hours.

Hank: Can we just make an animal into something? that would be a very nice mattress? If we could get enough animals combined so that it'd be like a nice, warm, living mattress that just wouldn't bug me and I could sleep on it. Because I'm very tired right now.

Grace: I can tell. 

Hank: Yeah! No, you want a living mattress?

Grace: I don't think I... I mean, that's a waterbed. No.

Hank: I. mean, there might be like things living in the waterbed, but hopefully... Have you ever had a waterbed? I've been on a waterbed, but I've certainly never slept on one regularly.

Grace: No, I don't think I've ever slept on one. I've like laid on one, but I don't think I've ever like slept on one.

Hank: I think I slept on one at like a sleepover once.

Grace: Yeah, that was like a childhood dream when I first found out that a waterbed existed. I was like, ah! And then I heard some crazy, like, possibly made-up story that, like, someone drowned in their waterbed. And then I was like, no longer want or need.

Hank: Pretty sure that was made up. I know. But you never know.

Grace: Jersey kids, we had to do something to occupy our time.

Hank: Okay. We got a question. This is from Erin who asks, Dear Hank and Grace, I've recently moved to a small town for a job where it seems like I don't have much in common with the locals. I'm a huge nerd and so far everyone I've met seems to only enjoy sports.

I've been invited to many more basketball games than board games. In addition, I suffer pretty bad with social anxiety and I am an introvert and so I can't seem to muster up the courage or motivation to do something I just won't enjoy. How can I meet like-minded people with similar interests?

Grace: There's a thing called the internet, I think, that might be a helpful solution.

Hank: Just never leave the house?

Grace: Yeah, I think, one, this isn't bad. This is not a bad problem. And I've only recently resigned this in my brain for myself over the past couple years that I used to think being an introvert was a bad thing. it's not. it just means that you gather your energy when you're alone rather than socializing with other people. when you socialize it depletes your energy and there are people that are extroverts that gain their energy from being around other people. and so i think acknowledging that you're an introvert is great because then you you have like now data yeah on yourself and you can figure out how to manage yourself in situations and knowing that you don't enjoy sports matches are great. this is I think this is really good deductive reasoning to get to. the thing that you really want to do that you will enjoy. It's like when I look to order food and I don't know what I want, I start thinking, what do I not want?

And then I mark all those things off until I end up with, it's always sushi. I just always want sushi all the time.

Hank: Yeah, you mark off pizza. before you get to sushi.

Grace: Very weird. I do. The cheese. I can't do the cheese.

Hank: I can do the cheese. You know, one time I used to dumpster dive in college. Really? I used to eat a lot of food out of dumpsters and I...

Grace: As like a personal choice or like as a money-saving thing?

Hank: It was like a money-saving thing, yeah. Okay. But also a personal choice. Okay.

And I could have made it work with buying food.

Grace: I was like, yeah, ramen is very cheap.

Hank: One time I... I was in, is that the Pizza Hut dumpster? Okay. I think it was Pizza Hut.

Sure. And I found, often times they would be like whole pizzas.

Grace: Oh yeah.

Hank: But I found just a huge like 10 pound ball of like melted and. then re-congealed cheese. Oh my god. Like they had put the bag of cheese too close to the oven and it all melted and they couldn't sprinkle it on the pizza and so they just threw it away.

Grace: So it just looked like a rubber band ball?

Hank: No, it was just giant. It was like difficult to lift. I did take it. I did.

Grace: Well, that, you know. So maybe that's a sport that you could get into. It's dumpster diving for recently congealed cheese.

Hank: But I would say that I have also found that doing things sometimes I surprise myself that I enjoy them. And like, you know, you sort of get to see, like, what is it about this thing that people enjoy? Right. And I, um, and there are lots of different, like, I go to baseball games in my little town where there's, you know, it's like the Farm Team for the Farm Team.

They're not very good at the sport, but they're much better than me and they're all teenagers. Sure. And like, you know, you go and there's hot dogs.

Right. And there's, you know. Fresh air.

Yeah, you're outside and there's people. Yeah. And mostly it's a social experience like, and it's sort of more social than going to a movie or something because there's a lot of sort of down time.

Oh, yeah. Not too much has happened, especially in baseball. It's like, what is, what is this?

Well, it just keeps throwing it and nothing happens.

Grace: I know, I do enjoy baseball games, but every time I go to one, I think, why? Why?

Hank: Why is it this thing? This is just, it doesn't have that much going for it.

Grace: No, not at all, not at all. I also think, yeah, when you, if you try to think about a situation from a different point of view, You, like you said, can surprise yourself on what you might enjoy about it. Even if you start to find one small, like...

Hank: If it's just a hot dog. I go to baseball games and I almost always think to myself, well, I'm gonna get a hot dog. Yeah. So that's not gonna be bad.

Exactly.

Grace: And it's always good to remember, no matter what situation, whether you are going to a board game night or you are going to a soccer game. is. to stay positive and open-minded. This is something I have to remind myself all the time because I'm also very socially anxious and introvert. So when I go out, I already have my radar up that I'm going to have a moment that I don't enjoy and I have to catch myself because that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. So if I think about things positively, like people have said, you can choose happiness, you can choose to be optimistic about the way you experience your life.

It changes a lot of things. Also, if you talk to some of those people that love sports, you might find out that they also love the nerdy things that you are interested in as well. People can have a lot of different things that they like.

Hank: Totally. Turns out. And if there's a game store in your town, I know that this is terrifying. The idea of this is probably terrifying.

It would certainly be terrifying to me, going to a game store and being like, hey, so anybody play games? I could just And I would just like to introduce me to some strangers and we can play some board games together. I would never do that, but it is a thing that exists.

It's a possibility. People do do that. I have friends who do that, like they move to a new town and they go to the game store and they're like, hey, any Magic the Gathering tournaments?

And I'm like, I would just like to talk to a total stranger. I know! So, but, I will say that...

Because something is scary doesn't necessarily mean that your body is telling you not to do it.

Grace: Right.

Hank: And I, you know, oftentimes the scary things end up being the most interesting and the most fun and where I learn the most about myself and about other people.

Grace: Yeah, I live by the philosophy, follow your fear. It's an improv philosophy because, you know, doing improv on stage is inherently very terrifying because you have no idea what's about to happen. And so you follow your fear because fear comes from a place where you're feeling this thing. About something because you care about it. if you didn't care about it.

There would be no feeling about it, right? But fear usually usually comes from a place of care. And so when you follow it, it's really interesting to see where you find yourself.

Sometimes it's not where you want to be. But sometimes it is take a chance. You only live once. we're all gonna die someday.

Hank: Yay You're getting the hang of it.

Grace: I'm getting right away. Mortality is looming around all of us. Should I read Isaac's question?

Hank: Yeah, please.

Grace: Okay, Isaac asks, Dear Grace and Hank, I want to study physics in college, however, I am quite sure that I will not get into Harvard or Yale or any really fancy school. Do you think it's still possible to make a contribution to the scientific community, parentheses, this doesn't apply just to physics, end parentheses, without going to an incredibly challenging slash expensive university, question mark.

Hank: Thanks. Yes. The answer to your question is yes. Most physicists didn't go to Harvard or Yale or any fancy school.

Yeah.

Grace: Most people that do really interesting things in a variety of fields didn't go to the greatest school for the thing that they've done something cool within.

Hank: Yeah. I mean, like, it's... There are advantages to going to fancy schools with big reputations and like you know it's nice. to be able to be like I'm a Harvard physicist and people will be like yes you are legit and that is clear to me from that from those two words put together. yeah but there are lots of lots of schools where I mean I went to. I got my chemistry degree from a tiny liberal arts school where there were in my year four chemistry graduates.

Grace: Wow really yeah Jesus.

Hank: And I got a great education. I learned a lot. I did applied research. Smaller schools, you can get a lot more attention.

And really, until graduate school, it doesn't really matter that much if you're going to be a physicist. It can, but establishing yourself, there's a lot of different ways to do that and a lot of different ways in undergrad. Yeah, it is not about what school you go to.

Grace: No, not at all. I got my communications degree from a small liberal arts college and when I first went my first semester I was like so bummed by the school and you know it had no notoriety behind it that I started filling out transfer applications to NYU and to Tisch and all these. schools in New York City that I thought were more legitimate and by default would make me a more legitimate communications major. and then I ended up staying at my school because I got a scholarship there and you know that's a good reason to stay. and I realized that the study, the individualized study that I got because it was such a small school was so much more meaningful in the long term of my career and world and trajectory than me being one of a billion kids at NYU trying to be a communications major. So yeah, eat *, NYU. Just kidding!

Also, you can just buy the sweatshirt and no one will know that you didn't go to Harvard or Yale. So, it's okay. They sell those shirts everywhere.

Hank: Elizabeth asks, Dear Hank and Grace, I just recently graduated from college and I'm feeling highly anxious at the realization that I'm never going to live near all of my closest friends again, and at the prospect of making new friends and acting like an adult, so... I've gotten so comfortable with my friends that I feel really uncomfortable around new people. Do you have any advice for? dealing with the real world making of new friends slash starting your new life as a quote-unquote real person? Whoa!

Grace: Well, just resign yourself to it. It's gonna be terrible.

Hank: It's funny, like this question has like a specific element, which is like, I'm... 

Grace: I lived for so long and I wrote about this in my book. Hey book plug. I live for so long believing that you could not make friends as an adult. I just thought that.

I thought that you made your friends in like your formative like adolescent years and those were the friends that you just carried through life. And I didn't have a lot of friends when I was in, you know, middle school and high school and college and so I would get really anxious and upset that I wasn't gonna have friends for the rest of my life. And then I...

Got involved in activities like improv comedy and like YouTube and started becoming parts of communities and within those communities finding like-minded people that had my sense of humor and were interested in the same things that I was interested in and me, you know, making a point to be open. to having relationships with these people. I mean, everyday you could make a best friend. It's like finding a relationship, like finding a romantic relationship.

You have to be open. for it to be in your life.

Hank: Yeah, it's funny because we have all this infrastructure around finding romance and like all of this cultural stuff and baggage and like the procedure of dating and apps and just all these cultural institutions. But we don't really have that for friends.

Grace: No, no one teaches you how to make friends.

Hank: No, it's either like it's this person who's next door to me in my dorm or the person the people who like were on my track team in high school. Yeah. You know, and like And also like, it's one of the crazy rewarding things for me about having hired a bunch of young people to help edit video and run Businesses. for me is that like I've just watched them all become buds. Yeah, and they're like go out and do stuff and play board games, and I'm like I just like I did this I'll put my head in like it'll be like seven o'clock at night, and I'll. be leaving work And I'm like why are there still people here, and I'll put my head in there.

There's like it in the studio like they've got the board like the table set up in this huge board game. And I'm like what are you nerds doing?

Grace: and they're like dad get out of here Stop embarrassing us. Yes! Yeah, there's so many, I think I've learned, this is so sad, when I was in college I remember freshman year of college I had such a bad adjustment to college and I didn't make like any friends and I was so like depressed and sad and anxious and I remember going to the like I guess just a general area where there's all these bulletin boards and clubs put up their flyers for everything. because I remember the night before laying in bed thinking to myself on a very sincere level how do you make friends like how how would you break it down?

Hank: how do you do this? give me the right words to say exactly.

Grace: I'm like what is the process and so my thinking and like trying to analyze it led me to to believe that. I should put myself in clubs where there are people that could potentially be friends. and so I went the next day and stood in front of the bulletin board and looked at all these like clubs and thought to myself like which would be Make the most sense for me to join. And I joined one, like, volunteer, like, activism-ish type of club. I don't even remember what it was.

And I showed up and there were, like, three people there. And they were all just doing it so they could have this club on their resume. And I was like, well, this totally failed.

And then I would go back, like, to my drawing board in my dorm room and be like, now what do I do? Oh, I guess I should get some hobbies and a job. A job you make friends at.

You have fellow, like, co-workers. And so I got a job. Yeah, it's, you just have to, like, constantly put yourself out there.

Hank: Yeah, I, it's, I'd say that, you know, most of my friends I made in school, like, even now, because I went to grad school in the place where I currently. live, and so, so a lot of my grad school friends still live there, and, oh God. It's so hard. And when I look at how those friendships formed, it had a lot to do with one or two really intentional people who were like, we're going to become friends. We're going to do activities and really guilting people into doing stuff.

Because we were all like, I just want to sit at home. Oh, yeah. And also being like, look, I'll pay.

It'll be my car. I'll get the gas. Really lowering.

And I'm so thankful to those people. Right. You can't like intentionally find one of those people, but you could potentially intentionally become one of those people.

Yes. And like if you can find a group of people who are like just like you or they're like sort of be like, yeah, look, let's go karaoke. It's going to be dumb.

Grace: Right. And it's an activity. We don't have to talk to each other the whole time. Yeah.

We can like ease into this friendship and getting to know each other.

Hank: Yeah. Sit around and just watch other people make fools of themselves.

Grace: You don't even have. to do it. Exactly. It is true because they're Being friends with someone is work. Friendships are work.

I'm one of those... I'm a beta personality, so I'm not an alpha. I don't take charge and plan things and organize events and rally people together. but I make really good friends with alphas because of that factor that I need someone like that to do that for me. but there have been times in my life where I've been like I really like that person.

Grace just ask them to hang out with you like just ask them and I'm like oh god what if I ask them and they say no it's like. then they say no you continue both living your lives and you ask again at another point yeah it's weird.

Hank: I remember so once I had Once Katherine and I were pretty well, we weren't married yet, but we were real, real close. Yeah. We were in that trajectory. I think it was clear by that point.

We went out and like we met a couple of new people who were friends of friends. Yeah. And like we went home and we were like, I really. like them.

Grace: You like couple dates?

Hank: Yeah. And it was like, what's like, is that? This seems like I feel like I have a crush on the couple.

Grace: Yeah, exactly.

Hank: And it's like I'm looking at this. I'm like what a like nerdy 27 year old thing like stable relationship thing to feel like oh we can watch old movies with them.

Grace: We can do activities together!

Hank: But then you think like, oh we

Grace: have conversations like this because we both have those feelings that think about every other person that's having

Hank: those same

Grace: feelings and someone else that's waiting on the other end of the line hoping that you will ask them to hang out and like you'll be surprised. It's like these all kind of have like a running theme of like putting yourself out there and following your fear into a place that might be really beneficial for yourself.

Hank: Offer to cook them dinner.

Grace: Oh, that's a good...

Hank: It's a really good one because then they come over to your place and like you're comfortable there but like you're doing them a favor so they feel like they kind of like it's okay to like get out. of their comfort zone a little or make them cook you dinner.

Grace: Okay.

Hank: Just be like, hey can you cook me dinner?

Grace: Hey, I think you're great. Would you cook me dinner so that we can become best friends? Yeah, when there's something like that like or even if it's like like a couple wanting to hang out with another couple I think activities like, you know, a taco night or something where everyone can be involved in doing something while having conversation and like eating, drinking, whatever, being social, it's always helpful to just have an activity so that people don't feel totally uncomfortable with themselves.

Hank: Which is why board games exist.

Grace: Yes, it's true.

Hank: This is why nerds love board games so much, and so that we can hang out with people without interacting.

Grace: I know that game. Um, okay.

Hank: I'm gonna go to Rosie because I skipped her.

Grace: Rosie asks Dear Grace and Hank, I am an aspiring writer and filmmaker, but it seems as if everyone I meet who is aspiring to do those same things are more talented and better situated to succeed. Should I keep trucking on, or do I attempt to find a? more sustainable career path. that might not be my quote. unquote dream? Any advice? How did you motivate yourselves when you were starting out?

Um, I, uh, yeah.

Hank: I feel like all things that you could be doing with your time are training for being a writer and filmmaker. If you want that thing, you can be doing anything. Because writing is all about empathy, understanding people, understanding yourself, and being able to, like, put down words that other people will enjoy and that you will know that they will enjoy it without having them.

Grace: Yeah, and also, I can say that I have constant self-doubt that I'm not good at what I'm doing and everyone else around me is much more suited for this. so I should be doing something else. At the end of the day, you have to analyze what it is that you're doing and does it make you happy? Do you enjoy it? Does it financially, you know, does it?

Can you make money doing it?

Hank: Yeah, support yourself.

Grace: Yeah, can you have a stable life with this both emotionally and financially? But if it doesn't, if you actually think this is, because there's been. moments in my life where I thought my dream job was something, and then when I analyzed it I realized, no, that's not my dream. I've always said that that's my dream, but it's really not. So this might be a moment in which you analyze this and you don't want to do. at writing or filmmaking or you do and if you do you just keep going. because I always say when I get asked about making web videos and like building your brand online that it's consistency over time and you you really have to be dedicated. and for me it's taken a long time to realize that not having overnight success is the most beneficial thing because that's such a stressful thing.

So hard. I mean like I always say kudos to Jenna Marbles for really truly being able to you know build off of a viral video and create and sustain a brand. but it's so hard to do that and it doesn't happen very easily.

Hank: Yeah and it can be really emotionally awful like it can be so such like you don't know what is you don't know what Your goals are. it's just this. thing that's happening to you And then there are lots of people who are trying to turn you into something. Yeah valuable for them Absolutely, which was like it's really nice to have a nice slow uphill.

Grace: Yeah, it makes you appreciate it because you have you have moments of minor success that make you appreciate bigger successes in your life so much more and I always think that it's It's really, it's good to not believe that you're the absolute best at something. Oh God, does anybody think that? You know, that always makes, when someone is, you know, like, I'm number one, I'm this, and like, has that kind of elitist mentality, I get so anxious for them because my parents have really instilled a level of humility in me as a human being, and I feel like if I ever begin to believe that I'm the best at something, I need to stop doing that thing, because I will become a monster. Yeah.

And so... Thinking that you're not the greatest is kind of good to keep you balanced. 

Hank: Yeah, I don't know anyone who really feels that way. I think some people maybe project that in. order to, like, mask insecurities. I'm crushing it. Yeah.

But I think, you know, nobody thinks that they are, like, I have always, like, I was just at this, you know, YouTube conference for educational content creators, and I'm in this room with, like, the Jim Henson company, and The Sesame Street and all, you know, like really old school brands that make really amazing things that I'm so enamored of. And and like, of course, like I kind of look at it and I'm like, what am I what am I doing here and why am I even trying? Like I should be working for one of these companies, not trying to do my own thing.

Yeah. Like if that's even possible. And but at the same time, it's like I like the thing I do and maybe and like they seem to think that I.

I'm good at it.

Grace: I think Kermit the Frog just showed up next to you and you guys sang Over the Rainbow with each other.

Hank: So, yeah, I think everybody always feels like a little bit of a faker. I've always felt like a little bit of a faker.

Grace: Yeah, because none of us actually know what we're doing in this whole universe.

Hank: But the thing that is great about, you know, what Rosie's thinking about as a career is that creating is really valuable whether or not it's your career or not and I know a lot of people who are able to and are really rewarded by the things that they make despite the fact that like you know this isn't something that they make money off of.

Grace: No it's and I've always kept myself in check in that. am I doing this for only financial reasons right now? If I am I can go wait tables and make money. Like what am I doing this for? Am I doing it because this is something I'm actually passionate about and really enjoy and I'm proud of the content that I'm creating.

In terms of her asking about motivating yourself when you're starting out, I think there's a couple different ways that I motivate myself and one is when I'm feeling not inspired, not the best, feeling like a poser, feeling like I'm not good at what I'm doing. I submerged myself in people that I think are doing it really well. I remember starting out and watching Colleen do Miranda Sings and just feeling this like inspiration of this is the funniest thing.

I want to do stuff like this and like. let that inspire me and infuse into like the way I make videos. And every time that I start to have one of those dips or like I'm creatively tapped out right now, I'll just go and watch videos or movies or read books from people that I think are really creative and are at the level that I hope to be at someday. I also create in other areas like I'm supposed to be writing my second book right now and I'm so hitting a wall with it that I just went and bought some shirts and some transferable paper and some paint pens the other day and I made myself some t-shirts all day the other day and I felt really good after that because creativity kind of lends itself to other forms of creativity. and so um it sounds like you're a creative person and maybe you will get re-inspired by kind of doing something else that's creative that gives your brain a second away from. the writing and the filmmaking.

Get some beads, make some bracelets, see what happens.

Hank: Here's a really awful thing about me.

Grace: Uh oh. 

Hank: So I've made a lot of stuff in my life. Okay. And sometimes when I'm feeling like I suck, and I'm not good at anything. I'll go and watch old me videos or read old Hank essays and be like, that was funny?

That's a funny guy. So I feel like if you make stuff, you can at least like, and of course sometimes I watch an old Hank video and I'm like, that was awful. What the heck was going on that week?

But I'm really The more stuff you make, the more stuff that you make that you actually end up being proud of. And if you can be proud of something that you made, it's a lot harder to get down on yourself about it.

Grace: I'm awful too, I do that same thing. Because there's a handful of videos and a handful of live performances that I've done in my life that I'm really, really proud of and think like, good job old me, you really were creative and I don't know where that. came from. Who is that person that's being so like free and clever and interesting and yeah. And so it's also really motivating.

Hank: And you can't cultivate those things, and you can't have those special moments where you sort of exceed your own expectations of yourself, unless you try a bunch. It's gonna be 10% of the time that you actually make something that you're like, you know, years later you'll be like, wow, am I that good? Can I write that well?

Grace: And then when you're done with your existential crisis about who you are based on who you were, maybe you'll find some sort of inspiration there.

Hank: It's never too deep here on Dear Hank and John.

Grace: No, we're all gonna die someday. That's how I answer every question. That's also how I motivate... myself a lot of the time.

Hank: It sounds so insane, but we were on set.

Grace: Hannah Hart and I were on set shooting Electrum and Dynagirl and we had a couple of days where we had to do some really intense scenes with each other and we would like, Hannah was having trouble one day doing this like really intense fight scene that we. had to do with each other and I literally right before the take just whispered to her, we're all gonna die someday, so why not- Try something interesting in this take. And then like walked away and afterwards she was like, dude, that really helped. I just was like, yeah, screw all these people watching me. Like we're all going to be dead.

So I may as well try to do something that I think is really interesting and totally cool and free out of my brain. than to like, I mean to quote the great philosopher Drake, you only live once. Yeah.

Hank: Cassie asks, Dear Hank and Grace, what TV show would you go back in time to be in?

Grace: Hmmm... What, do you have one?

Hank: No.

Grace: No, not at all. You need time to think.

Hank: Oh, uh, yeah.

Grace: My instinct, like my initial response is Friends.

Hank: You'd be so great on Friends!

Grace: That makes me sad just thinking about it. Well, one, for a practical reason, because they got a two bedroom apartment in the Lower East Side and they were both broke. That doesn't happen in New York at all. So they lived in some wonderful, beautiful, fantasy place.

Two, I think that Phoebe is one of the funniest female characters on TV. that's so underrated.

Hank: It's so funny. When I watched Friends as a kid, I hated Phoebe. Right. Going back, she's the only character I actually like that I would like want to hang out with.

The rest of them are kind of awful. Yeah, the rest of them are very narcissistic. Yeah, super, yeah.

She's the only one who's not, and she's a bit of a narcissist.

Grace: But she's completely self-aware about it in this bizarre floaty, hippie, erythral thing. But she's... Yeah, I think she's one of the funniest TV characters Especially as a female that you look back on and they all were great like. that's why that show.

Hank: yeah, that show is fantastic.

Grace: You can watch we.

Hank: I just recently rewatched the whole thing and I was like, oh, that's why this was so popular.

Grace: exactly You can watch any episode at any time without any context before or after of the storyline and laugh within 30 seconds. Yeah at someone it's I. so that's my initial answer.

Hank: So would you want to be a main character on Friends you want? to like like just show like a Gunther? Yeah, that's like there all the time.

Grace: It's just like in the background. It has a couple like moments that get to like have craft services in between takes. Yeah, I think something like that. 

Hank: I would love to have been on Star Trek The Next Generation. Just like put me in Ferengi makeup and make me spout about capitalism. I would love that.

Grace: Was Whoopi Goldberg on that? Yeah. Yeah, I watched, I was there with Hannah.

Hank: She was like the Gunther of Star Trek The Next Generation.

Grace: Yeah, well because she asked. She basically asked for a part on the show. She told it to Hannah when Hannah interviewed her in New York. She was like, LeVar Burton Why don't you just ask?

And so she called up the creators and was like, give me a part.

Hank: And they were like, what do you want to be? And she was like, bartender. Sure, why not?

Grace: Which I thought was so cool. And you're like, god, you've just always been powerful, haven't you, Whoopi?

Hank: Seriously. But when the question, when you first looked at me and said, do you have an? answer for this, my thought was Twin Peaks.

Grace: Oh, see I've never seen Twin Peaks. Oh my god. I am sorry, out the window. What?

I need, I need that window. Here's my, ok, here's my association with Twin Peaks. When I was in college the first friends that I did make freshman year were the Bulgarian transfer students. that lived on my floor.

They were all computer science majors and they lived there all year round because they didn't go back home to Bulgaria and they were obsessed with Twin Peaks. They used to sit in the common lounge and watch it on TV all together because none of them had TVs in their dorm room and it was hilarious. They loved it. so, so much.

But yeah, I know.

Hank: You should watch, it's on Netflix now.

Grace: There's only two seasons, right?

Hank: Yeah, it's like one and a half. The first season is a master, like it is One of the best things that ever happened on TV. It's amazing.

Grace: Have they tried to bring it back?

Hank: Uh, yeah. There was an effect that may be coming back, but Lynch- You heard it here first! Had to back out. because of like some drama. Oh.

So like the guy who created it isn't working on the reboot right now, which is- Well, that's a bummer. Disappointing.

Grace: You know it's a show that I would love to be on? Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Hank: Oh wow, that would be fun.

Grace: Can you imagine? Just you and a bunch of robots?

Hank: Those guys are like super active in the nerd community. Are they? I'm like very...

Grace: That's...

Hank: I don't think I've ever hung out with any of them, but I hang out with lots of people who hang out with them. So if you ever want to hang out with them...

Grace: Oh my god, my brothers would like, die.

Hank: They're very funny people.

Grace: To quote the youth culture. They would live for that. Yeah, that was one of my first like forays as a a little girl into comedy. My older brother used to watch Mr.

Science Theater 3000 and he would put it on and we'd all have to watch it and I didn't understand it at all. but I'd laugh whenever he laughed and then as I got older I was like oh that was really funny. that concept is. just such a ridiculously absurd concept.

Hank: Welcome to the Basement. 

Grace: Oh yeah. 

Hank: We've been going for 1,400 measures. Whoa! I don't know what that means! Uh, okay, yeah.

I- I- There was a question that I didn't put in that- that mostly. I just want to ask you this question. Uh oh.

It was such a good question, but it felt very sort of vain. Okay. Because it's sort of just a question that I want to talk with you about that I don't necessarily think that other people would necessarily care about, but how do you decide What opportunities to take?

Because lots of people come and knock and I imagine there's a number of no's that come out of the mouth of the Helbig.

Grace: Um, well, I come from, you know, the... Comedy world background where YouTube wasn't going to be my job. I was auditioning for TV films. So there's you learn a sense of hustle that you say yes to everything because you have no idea which you know friends pilot or which you know co-workers.

Web short is gonna be seen by who and then lead to what. so you and also the general rule. and improv is to say yes, and and so I I've Only recently learned about saying no being okay. I have for so long been the person that says yes to everything and then freaks out that I can't do everything and then deals with my internal anxiety of having to potentially let someone down by not doing something. and now I've learned that it is much better for myself and for that person. if I just say no outright then yes but in the long run. so I now the way that I measure. I still have a lot of that mentality of wanting to be able to do everything and help everyone. it probably comes from just like a deep-seated emotional place of just wanting everyone to like me. yeah but with opportunities.

I've also never had a plan. I never had a five-year plan a one-year plan.

Hank: I've been Thank you our plan.

Grace: yeah, I live in like 15 minute time frame And I've been thinking about getting a plan, but I don't know if that's just my style. I don't know if it works for me, so I say yes to things based on a lot. of gut reaction I think about. I Really really really and have since day one of making web videos put myself in the audience's shoes. is this book I'm writing? is this movie we're shooting? is this video I'm making something I would want to read or watch or share? and so if it is then that's a no-brainer. a lot of times I have to really think about it and really try and separate myself. and are the people involved in this good people? when we were making the television show my biggest kind of grounding philosophy on hiring people was no dicks. I didn't I can't I'm very passive and I just wanted to work in an environment with people that said yes, people that liked what they were doing, people that were actually having a good time.

And so that's kind of my gauge. What's yours? 

Hank: Yeah, it's a gut thing for me mostly. It's like, since I live in Montana, it's like I'm a default no, which I think weeds out a lot of people from even asking. Well, that's good. But I have a lot going on.

Like in the studio, I have to be. doing SciShow and Crash Course all the time. Right. And I have people relying on me to run the business and to make the content so that they can do their jobs.

And so that is a huge limiting factor. So I basically don't say yes unless... Oh, cool. or it's gonna make me feel really good like it's gonna like if like I had I had an asteroid mining company. be like do you want to promote our Kickstarter with Brent Spiner from Star Trek The Next Generation? and I was like yes I will.

I want to do that. I do want to do that. can you give me a certificate saying I did that and like at an Air and Space Museum?

Grace: it was like Mamrie Hart and I did this travel series at the end of last summer called Hey USA and it was a series that just developed out of a really organic idea that we travel so much. we should have a sloppy travel show and just happened to offhandedly mention that in a meeting with a company about something else and they love that idea and it just developed in front of us. and then we both said yes to it because of the experience. now looking back on all the things that we did in the time it was it was really fun but it's also really stressful because it was so much travel in a short period of time. But in hindsight, the experiences we had would never have happened to us otherwise.

Hank: I was jealous watching that show. You guys looked like you had a lot of cool experiences. There might be a season 3, so there might be an opportunity.

Grace: You know, we tried so hard season 1 to get them to send us to Montana so that we could hang out with you.

Hank: I remember.

Grace: Yeah, and then they were like... So we realized we can't do an entire episode where you just hang at your friend Hank's house all weekend.

Hank: There's stuff to do! I could take you out for pizza. We could go bowling.

Grace: Cheers. My question to you, is there something out there that you haven't been asked to do yet that you really like hope? Is there like... Oh.

Kind of. Yeah.

Hank: I like to give talks. Oh, cool. And... But I only like. to give talks.

Like. I don't like to be paid. Sure.

That makes sense. That makes perfect sense Hank, of course.

Grace: All of these ears perk up of like, he likes to give talks without financial gain? Well, we have an auditorium for you.

Hank: But I like I'd never have time to do it. I've been asked to give commencement speeches several times and I've like always wanted to but never can. Oh, it's just never like it's. I mean, I saw, I watched yours.

Grace: Yeah, it was one, that was a thing that came up that I was afraid of that I was like, no, I should just do this. This sounds, and I didn't get paid for it. And that was the thing online. Everyone was like, I'm pretty sure she got paid for it.

And I was like, absolutely not. That was my college that I went to and it just seemed like such a cool, honorable thing to do.

Hank: Yeah. Yeah. And so I always like, so like sometimes like make, like I'll like get that bug out to like make a video to the people who are graduating. I've done that several times now.

And, uh, and so I, But I kind of would want to like I give I've given a couple of sort of TED style talks which I really enjoy doing and and I also like there's a part of me that wants to host a science series and whether that's like mini docs or a TV thing but like I would I just like the my favorite. some of my favorite things in the world are like Nurds talking about science and being excited about it, which is what I do on the internet a lot. Right, right. But doing that in like a high budget situation would be really cool.

That sounds good. But a huge amount of work because I would not just, I would not let that be like you write all the words down and then I say them. Right.

It would have to be something that happens.

Grace: You'd want to be really involved. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds really cool.

It feels like that could be something that happens in the future. Yeah. Who knows?

Who knows? Thoughts are things, it's now in the universe so if the secret really works it's gonna happen. That's what my.

Hank: mom's told me. Thoughts are things, is that a phrase that I've just never heard?

Grace: Thoughts are things, thoughts are things, I think that's in the secret a whole bunch where it's like if you think it and you put it out there then it exists and it grows into something in the universe. My mom tried to make me listen to the secret on tape with her one time and there's just so many gong noises that I checked out.

Hank: Yeah. That's not, that's not, I don't think that's my bag. All right, that was our last question, Grace. Oh my god.

Grace: Time is an illusion.

Hank: You're not really good at this.

Grace: I know, I'm just getting out all of my deep s right here so that I can go back to my podcast and talk about pants pooping stories.

Hank: Oh god, I'm so sad that I'm not gonna be on Not Too Deep this time because I want to tell you my pants pooping story.

Grace: Next time, save it.

Hank: I've got it already.

Grace: Oh, I can't wait.

Hank: Uh, so it is time for the news now, though. Do you have any news from AFC Wimbledon?

Grace: Blah blah de. bloop football, bloopy striker, the Dons. AFC Wimbledon, that's the, um, the, the thing over in Europe. Is it, it's the football?

Hank: Yeah, it's John's football team, yeah.

Grace: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He talked about it when he was on the television show, and he said that, because I asked, like, how was the team doing? Where are they in the ranking? And he said you guys moved into another league?

Hank: Something like that, and then... I don't think, once upon a time they moved into another league. They didn't do that this year. Yeah, okay.

But they are, they are not leaving this league, which, weird thing about English soccer, which I never, like, this doesn't matter at all. Sure. to you or anyone as far as, but, there are a bunch of different leagues and unlike in American sports where a player just sort of rises the ranks, a whole team can rise up the ranks. So if you're in like the top three spots of league two, then the next year you're in league one and then if you're in the top 2 or 3 spots in that league, then you rise up again.

Oh, yes. But if. you're in the bottom two or three, then you drop leagues. Right.

And that's a huge deal, because you lose a bunch of money, you lose a bunch of sponsorships. It's very embarrassing. You aren't in the game FIFA anymore.

Grace: Oh my god, David Beckham looks down on you.

Hank: He does. Yeah. He does that anyway, though.

Grace: Yeah, he does. He's so tall. Yeah, I don't know much about European football. But I went and saw my first like real real match two years ago or a year ago and I loved it.

The environment, I mean talk about the antithesis of a baseball game. It's so much fun. Everyone knows these cheers and they know so many of them.

I think I watched Carthage play. Oh, I don't remember the name. It'll come to me later, but they, the fans were going nuts.

They're standing the entire time. How they all knew, it was probably like 20 or 30 original cheers that they were doing about this entire match and the kids are doing it. It's like a lot of dads and sons and it was, it was really, really fun.

Hank: I would, I want to see this like. a sociological study of the evolution of a football chant. And we'll see you next time! Williams. So what rhymes with Williams?

Grace: I know. What? Yeah, exactly. They're all on RhymeZone.com trying to come up with their cheers.

Hank: It's like at the bar on their iPhones, Rhyme Zone.

Grace: Yeah, I would love that. That there's one guy that just goes home every week and like tests out new cheers. That would be so great. Alright.

So what is the news?

Hank: The news from Mars is that it looks like Mars might have been a lot more icy than we previously believed. According to a new study that used atmospherics models to study how water would have moved between Mars's surface and its atmosphere, lead investigator Robin Wordsworth ran a number of models at different temperatures, and the model that most closely modeled the eroded features of Mars was the cold model, where all the surface was ice water. Icy. Where all the surface water was ice.

And that That many of Mars' surface features are better explained by ice than by running water. Though there is other evidence showing clear signs of liquid water, this is a sign that Mars. may have spent more time as a snowball than as a water world.

Grace: Wow! They watched the movie Frozen on Mars and it got trendy.

Hank: Maybe it was Elsa.

Grace: That's where Elsa lives.

Hank: It's probably Elsa. Oh, that makes so much sense. Right? Because there's that, like, weird snowman guy.

Oh my god. Which probably couldn't have happened on Earth.

Grace: He's probably actually a Mars, you know, native species.

Hank: He's probably a native species of Mars. Now it all makes sense.

Grace: Frozen is just a, you know, an educational tool about the solar system.

Hank: We're learning so much! So that's it for this episode of Dear Hank and John. Uh, guest hosted... by Grace Helbig without John.

Grace: Yay! Sorry John, you've been replaced.

Hank: Grace is the creator of YouTube.com slash ItsGrace and a wonderful podcast, Not Too Deep, available here wherever you're listening to this. Also of Grace's Guide, available wherever books are sold. And also The Grace Helbig Show on E. Is that coming back?

I probably can't talk about that.

Grace: I can't talk about it. It's in a hiatus mode right now. So it's sleeping. 

Hank: Camp Dakota, Hey USA! Hey USA. Collabing with every single YouTuber? Electromandinagirl.

Oh, Electromandinagirl. Yeah.

Grace: Yeah, a lot of really cool, exciting things.

Hank: Many, many things. Our theme music is by Gunnarolla. The podcast is edited by Nicholas Jenkins. If you have any questions for us, you can send them to hankandjohnatgmail.com.

As we say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.

Grace: That felt very powerful.