[intro]
Lindsey: I'm Dr. Lindsey Doe, a Clinical Sexologist. This is my dear friend, Richelle -
Richelle: Hi!
L: She and I have been on Sexplanations in the past talking about our sexual fears, and I've invited her to do it again with me to talk about our fears now, and if they're different than the ones before? Yeah.
R: Yeah.
L: Do you want to know the fears that you had, or do you just want to launch?
R: I actually want to start out with one of my greatest fears. [L laughs] I just want to go straight into it.
L: Okay!
R: You ready?
L: Yes.
R: It's applied in the sexual context but also outside of it, which is - not learning from previous experiences or mistakes. And the last episode, we created a definition for "fear," that once I watched again, I was like, "I don't actually think that was the best definition of fear." I think your original definition was the right one. And I want to learn from that. ... Did I catch you off-guard?
L: What is the definition of "fear" that you want to use?
R: "False evidence appearing real." We used that definition, and somebody in the comments left a great feedback that a lot of our fears weren't false fears; they were based on reality. I think that the actual definition of "fear" was something more like, "anticipation of-"
L: "- negative consequences?"
R: " - negative consequences." Which, the anticipation is real; maybe the consequences wouldn't be negative? But there is an anticipation of it. I was like, "Oh, yeah."
L: Are you afraid that you haven't learned anything sexually?
R: No, my fear is just that I won't learn and admit, "Oh, I'm getting better," right? I don't want to be so rigid that I'm like, "Oh, I'm not listening to other people or their feedback." Like, yeah, they have very good points, those commenters.
L: You're good at the self-actualizing, self-improvement.
R: Let's hear what I was afraid of, then.
L: Really??
R: Yeah!
L: Okay. "I'm not good enough sexually, not going to perform appropriately, don't know what my needs are, not going to be able to communicate them." So then, I said, "I'm afraid that my labia look like roast beef," [R laughs] but corrected that and I said that I'm afraid of what other people think about my labia looking like roast beef.
R: Yeah.
| YouTube: | https://youtube.com/watch?v=_BcHiy0cygY |
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| View count: | 79,170 |
| Likes: | 2,637 |
| Comments: | 299 |
| Duration: | 18:34 |
| Uploaded: | 2020-07-08 |
| Last sync: | 2024-10-30 18:15 |
Citation
| Citation formatting is not guaranteed to be accurate. | |
| MLA Full: | "LOVING ON EACH OTHER Sexual Fears Part 2." YouTube, uploaded by Sexplanations, 8 July 2020, www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BcHiy0cygY. |
| MLA Inline: | (Sexplanations, 2020) |
| APA Full: | Sexplanations. (2020, July 8). LOVING ON EACH OTHER Sexual Fears Part 2 [Video]. YouTube. https://youtube.com/watch?v=_BcHiy0cygY |
| APA Inline: | (Sexplanations, 2020) |
| Chicago Full: |
Sexplanations, "LOVING ON EACH OTHER Sexual Fears Part 2.", July 8, 2020, YouTube, 18:34, https://youtube.com/watch?v=_BcHiy0cygY. |
December 2018 I, Lindsey Doe, sat down with my friend Richelle to talk about our sexual fears. Here's a link to that original episode : https://youtu.be/vLC3aOmR8lo
Now half way through 2020 it seemed important to revisit these fears and talking through new ones. The episode is long (podcast style), there were moments where we thought about shortening it, but we kept it mostly raw because why not. You can see how I am with the people I love.
Thank you for making content like this possible. This episode was funded completely by support on our Patreon page.
Dr. Doe's contact info:
TWITTER : https://twitter.com/elleteedee
TUMBLR : http://tumblingdoe.tumblr.com
FACEBOOK : https://www.facebook.com/sexplanations
INSTAGRAM : http://instagram.com/sexplanations
DFTBA : https://store.dftba.com/collections/sexplanations
WEBSITE : http://sexplanations.com
Support Sexplanations by becoming a sexpla(i)naut: https://www.patreon.com/sexplanations
https://www.patreon.com/sexplanationspodcast
Now half way through 2020 it seemed important to revisit these fears and talking through new ones. The episode is long (podcast style), there were moments where we thought about shortening it, but we kept it mostly raw because why not. You can see how I am with the people I love.
Thank you for making content like this possible. This episode was funded completely by support on our Patreon page.
Dr. Doe's contact info:
TWITTER : https://twitter.com/elleteedee
TUMBLR : http://tumblingdoe.tumblr.com
FACEBOOK : https://www.facebook.com/sexplanations
INSTAGRAM : http://instagram.com/sexplanations
DFTBA : https://store.dftba.com/collections/sexplanations
WEBSITE : http://sexplanations.com
Support Sexplanations by becoming a sexpla(i)naut: https://www.patreon.com/sexplanations
https://www.patreon.com/sexplanationspodcast
(00:00) to (02:00)
(02:00) to (04:00)
L: - like roast beef.
R: Yeah.
L: And I had a conversation with Laura Marie Fleming, who did an episode on body-image-weight in the past, and she was telling me that that is her experience of a lot of people’s body images - that we actually like our bodies - and I LOVE my body. But my insecurity is around whether or not other people will love my body.
R: Hm.
L: I love my roast-beef labia. Like [happy "mm" sounds].
R: Yeah! Get it! Like, I love how you've taken something else and been like, "This is how you associate it." So, mine - this isn't a fear now, I'm just telling you my association with my own vulva. Since I was a little girl - oh no, this is terrifying. [laughs]
L: Yes, yes, go, go, go! See?? No fear!
R: Since I was a little girl, I thought vulvas - especially from the perspective of looking down on your vulva - like, I didn't even know I had labia at the time when I was a little girl. You just see two little bumps - I do - and I thought they looked like the mandible or a tarantula. It wasn't bothersome; it was just like, "Oh, it looks just like a [uninteligible]."
L: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! I think, though, what I would like to have happen is for us to - instead of calling it "roast beef sandwich," we would call it a "labia sandwich," where the vulva becomes the thing that is dominant rather than the roast beef.
R: Oh, yeah. How would that apply for a tarantula?
L: You would just say, "This is the labia-face." [laughter]
R: "This is a labia-mandibles." We're all learning a lot together!
L: I wanted to say something else about this reversal in thinking around body image. So, I'm working on writing a book. A lot of people said, "We need to have actual images of anatomy in them, and I was like, "Yeah, yeah we do, so I'm gonna collect all those," and then realized that I need to put mine in there as well, and there are two reasons:
One, because it really bothers me when a lot of P.E. teachers or heath teachers, educators in general, therapists - they'll do their job up until sex, and then they will have outside people come in, and it sends this message of like, "Oo. I can't. I can't talk about that; we have to get an external person in."
(04:00) to (06:00)
L: I didn't want to do the same thing with my book where I'm the narrator the entire time, and then it's like, "Oh! Pictures of vulva. I can't. All these other pictures are of me, but I can't share that.
And then, the other reason is because I want people to know the diversity there, like, "When I say roast beef, what are we talking about?"
R: So last time, we had sort of a framework of ego-fears, relational-fears, and then other fears. I noticed that my fears that are especially - well, all of them change based on my relationship to other-, my partners and with myself and where I'm at. And so, with therapy - and thank god for therapy [L chuckles] - a lot of those fears have changed. Well, I wanna hear your fears, too, and your experience with them.
L: Well, okay, and then you said, "Afraid of labia - that they don't look like the way they're supposed to, that they're not the right size, they're not doing the right thing in the right place."
Then, I was like, "Like getting in the way and causing pain?"
"Lengthening because of gravity and age, drying out," and then, "getting squished in underwear." We've talked about designing underwear.
R: We [clap] need [clap] somebody with labia [L chuckles] to design underwear, please deargod.
L: I don't care if you have labia so long as you know how to design.
R: I want you to understand the squishing that happens. I would love -
Both: - a labia designer.
L: [chuckle] That makes it sound like you want somebody to design labia for people. Okay.
R: What if you could have a labia mould, and they would create the perfect underwear based on the length, width, girth of your labia?
L: [inhales]
R: Sounds expensive.
L: We'll have resources in the future. You said that you were "afraid that your Mirena [IUD] strings are gonna poke out and hurt your partner." I said, "Haven't figured out that I am not heterosexual." And you said you have the opposite; that you are queer and you haven't figured out that you are heterosexual. Then, you said you're afraid of "not knowing your body well enough to communicate what you want to a partner" -
You know what? [laughing] Just watch the old episode!
I said, "I'm afraid of disappointment," but the other person isn't oppressed by the work that I am doing or what I've done in the past -
(06:00) to (08:00)
L: - done in the past, and then, if they don't like what I do, then maybe we're not matched up sexually? And then, you said that you want more, "You're afraid that you want more emotions than the other person, that there's discrepancy and attachment, chemical bathing, unequal power-dynamic." And then, I said, I'm afraid I enjoy sex more, and that I'm afraid that they're gonna leave me because they need something else or they're dissatisfied, and they're gonna say that, 'Dr. Doe wasn't in bed,' and then -"
R: I feel badly [for] anybody [that] hasn't just watched the other episode; I feel like we should be like, "Watch the episode here."
L: Yeah! But we're doing a review -
R: Okay.
L: And who doesn't want to watch us -
R: Rehash.
L: - just love on each other and hold space for our past fears and growth. You said you're "afraid of dishonesty," and I said, "I'm afraid of clitlock -
Oh gosh, this fear that I'm never going to find the same sexual... what is this word? [gestures broadly]
R: "Experience?"
L: - capacity again?
R: Sure, yeah.
L: I'm in that fear right now. [vocalizations]
R: "Compatibility?"
L: Not "compatibility." Yeah, that's part of it, but for a couple years having this partner that could go in and like [vocal click, gestures].
R: Can you use more hand motions when you're explaining? I'm not sure I understand?
L: The capacity of that, right? Like, hooking up and just like 75 orgasms out, and two-, three pints of flud, whatever, [vocal SFX] just excavating everything.
R: Yeah, sign me up, that sounds great!
L: I'm afraid that I won't find the same quality maintenance man or woman or person.
R: Yeah. So, high bar.
L: High bar. And then you said that you're afraid of accepting bad things to have - bad relationship in order to have great sex -
R: Or -
L: And also, afraid of -
R: - great sex, bad relationship.
L: Bad sex, great relationship; great sex, bad relationship. Yeah.
R: Yeah.
L: New fears! Or are those the same?
R: Well, I want to hear how those fears have changed for you, and how hearing all these fears from two years ago - do they still hold true for you? Do you feel like they have changed or morphed or your relationship to them has changed or morphed?
(08:00) to (10:00)
L: I think they calmed down so much. Just doing that episode with you and saying them out loud? It was like ["pff" release noise] - nothing.
R: I don't know that it changed for me, just saying them out loud. I don't know that just naming them changed them, but I do think that awareness leads to things being addressed, right?
L: Yeah.
R: So if I say publically, "Oh, I am afraid of exchanging bad relationship for great sex [they laugh] or great relationship for bad sex, that then, that holds me more accountable to a community, even if it's not people that I know, I'm accountable to myself. And I have it on video, so I'm like, "Ah, damn, I gotta do the thing." Or, another big one, that at the time has changed for me was I was really afraid of not being able to communicate what I needed in the moment, and that has radically changed for me over the course of the past two years.
L: Because you have somebody who listens?
R: Yeah, I think definitely the dynamic of my sexual relationships, it's changed, and there's a whole bunch of things that come into play with that. But naming that fear and having that said out loud creates some accountability for myself to do something about it. I also have this kind of personal motivation that if I'm afriad of something, I feel compelled to do it.
L: "Counterphobia."
R: Is that what that's called?
L: Yes, where you're saying you're afraid of it so you go toward it?
R: Yes.
L: Yes.
R: It's like my guide-post. So, if I'm afraid of doing something, especially if I know it's something that would be good for me, then I tend to do it: So, I'm afraid of flying, I learned how to paraglide; I'm afraid of communicating -
L: [whispers, to camera] She's badass.
R: [to camera] I also quit paragliding. Knowing that fear is survivable, right? That I don't necessarily need to get rid of fear. So something I learned paragliding, for me, right? I took a up paragliding because I was afraid of flying - that fear never went away: I would get in my harness, I would launch off of the mountain, and I would still be afraid the whole time. But what I learned was that I could still survive and pilot a wing -
(10:00) to (12:00)
R: - wing in the air in the air, thousands of feet off the ground while being terrified. I could still move forward, and that my fear wasn't a barrier to action. Having said out loud that "my fear is that I won't be good at communicating," I've really worked on that. Thanks, Sexplanations! [they chuckle]
In the old episode, I was under the premise that we were talking about sexual fears once we entered into a relationship. What I -
L: Ah! Mm-hmm?
R: - failed to incorporate in that was fears about not finding a relationship in the first place or not being able to have sex at all. I think it's a part of reality if you're unwell or sick or if you have - like, I have autoimmune diseases that might impact my sexual well-being in the future. Like everybody when they age, sexual well-being is probably going to be impacted, and there were a set of fears that I didn't uncover until, again, your audience - who's lovely - shared their own fears. And that educated me.
Yeah, so I've also been exploring that more, like, what does intimacy and sexuality look like in a different format if it doesn't happen the way that it has traditionally happened for me, or if it doesn't happen at all? What does it look like if it's just with myself, or what does it look like if it's not able to involve different body parts as we age and change?
L: [inhales] I'm feeling a little fear right now.
R: You are. Go on. [they chuckle]
L: I think I'm afraid that I like sex so much that I am going to become less discriminant about... with whom. I'm afraid that I can't practice what I preach. So this idea that, "Yeah! Mastery! And do it in all these different ways, and explore, have diversity," and all this self-love, and I'm just like, "No! I don't wanna! I want somebody else to do the work!"
I'm afraid that that actually hurts me because in not being a good lover to myself, -
(12:00) to (14:00)
L: - myself, I don't have the capacity myself to join up with others that... hm-hmm-, that isn't-isn't true. All of these things, right? They have multidimensions to them. I'm afraid that I'm just gonna stop caring about sex. Like, it's been such a driving force in my life. My libido is like, "Mm, we do this, we do all the things because we want to get laid." What if I just stopped caring about it?
R: Then who are you?
L: Then who am I?
R: Yeah.
L: Little bit of an identiy crisis? I'm not there yet; I'm very much care about sex, and not just for me - I care about other people's sex: their hygeine, their identities, their relationships - all of that. It doesn't have to be that people are having sex or that they're having good sex, but I just want sexual literacy.
R: It's really brave that you can speak your fears.
L: Oo, you know what a big one is?
R: What?
L: I am afraid that I have experienced so much sexual oppression from employers, and community members, etc.-etc., YouTube - that I have just given up.
R: Say more.
L: So when I see people Amp from Watts The Safeword and his team taking on-, they're undergoing legal action to explore human rights to have fair treatment as YouTube educators with all the others out there, and to be monetized and treated fairly, and I'm just like, "I'm tired. I'm tired of fighting." And that is a huge fear of mine, that I'm going to lose the ability to stand up for what is right because I'm worn out and I'm pressed. These are heavy fears.
R: So heavy.
L: Let's go back to roast beef!
R: We were like - episode one is the amuse-bouche; this is the full fucking entrée of fears. There's a whole layer of fear around sexual manipulations that is so heavy and something that we didn't even touch at all -
(14:00) to (16:00)
R: - even touch at all in our last episode was the fear of sexual violence. And as a woman in the world, that is something that I'm constantly thinking about and trying to prevent or trying to recover from. Like, my existance as a woman is part and parcel with dealing with sexual violence. That's my experience, and that's a reality that I wish weren't real
L: I feel sliced: I have to not only prevent the responsibiliy to prevent and then the responsibility to recover. Like, why.
R: And also acknoledging the amount of privilege I still have knowing that violence towards me or somebody who looks like me, who is feminine, who looks cisgendered, who looks like I'm not clear, or you know, I'm super, very-very pale and white, and I know that women of color experience it way more often.
L: The healing side of it, or the rainbow of it is that we are doing the work to address those fears, right? If I'm afraid that when I say "me, too," or I wear a mask, or I advocate for any number of human rights causes, that I'm going to be treated badly - that fear is okay. Like, not all fear is bad: it can still motivate me to keep going, it can direct with some caution, but I can still move.
I don't know. There's a lot to be grateful for that I am not afraid of and still acknowledge that other people experience a fear and need extra help with that.
R: What happens, though, when we name our fears? When we say them out loud? When we acknowledge our experience and where these fears come from? That we find others who have them, too, and it's in our communion with other people that we find strength to overcome them, especially if it's systematic.
And we can also ask for help, right? I can go to somebody who has overcome the fear that I'm encountering, and I can ask for help.
(16:00) to (18:00)
R: Or I can go to somebody who has expertise and say, "I'm doing sex in this way; I want to do sex in this other way, and I want ideas." Or I can go and say, "I never feel like I am enough, and that is resulting in all of these implications in my life professionally and personally and sexually," and they can help me fix that They can help me see outside of the frame that I'm using - alleviate all of that - but that starts with me naming that fear and acknowledging my experience and acknowledging the reality that I'm living in.
L: That was beautiful! Are there any other fears you need to name?
R: I'm afraid that I'm not doing enough as a white woman to help alleviate systematic oppression against - especially against - queer women of color, but I-, people of color in general. And I'm afraid that I'm not doing enough - simultaneously - to help future generations, and I think that's environmental.
I think that I have spent a lot of my life trying to be okay myself, and trying to get to a place where I feel okay in myself, and I feel like I've achieved that. Now, it's time to do the work to fix it all. Because it's when everybody is getting what they need - they live in abundance, nd we have enough for everyone, and everyone feels safe - then I am also free. Right? Like, it's not just to help other people; it helps me when the world is bettered in that way. And I don't-, I'm afraid I'm not doing enough work there.
When we are all fed, when we are all safe, when we are all secure - we are all able to be more loving, present, contribute to the world. And more contribution to the world benefits me just as it does other people. I'm afraid if I don't do my part to make sure that other people are safe and treated well, that we won't all rise together.
L: Okay, so future us's: Is this still a fear, or have we overcome? Let us know in the comments what your fears are around sexuality or in general, and if you have ideas for us -
(18:00) to (18:34)
L: - for us to overcome them. [to R] You inspire me, and you helped me feel less fearful because I have somebody to journey with, who's thoughtful and wants to learn and grow and help the world be a better place.
R: I feel the same.
L: Quarantine high-five. [gestures, chuckles]
Both: Stay curious!
[outro]