microcosmos
What Does Cancer Look Like?
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Duration: | 13:10 |
Uploaded: | 2024-03-25 |
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This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. Go to https://squarespace.com/microcosmos to get a free trial and 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
Usually on Journey to the Microcosmos, we spend our time delving into the microscopic world and the surprising things that microbes have to teach us. But today, we would like to talk about Hank Green, and what was his cancer.
Follow Journey to the Microcosmos:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/journeytomicro
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JourneyToMicro
Shop The Microcosmos:
https://www.microcosmos.store
Support the Microcosmos:
http://www.patreon.com/journeytomicro
More from Jam’s Germs:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jam_and_germs
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn4UedbiTeN96izf-CxEPbg
Hosted by Hank Green:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/hankgreen
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/vlogbrothers
Music by Andrew Huang:
https://www.youtube.com/andrewhuang
Journey to the Microcosmos is a Complexly production.
Find out more at https://www.complexly.com
Stock video from:
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/close-up-shot-of-microscope-stock-footage/860443522
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/death-of-gfp-expressing-cells-in-culture-stock-footage/511777412
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/human-prostate-cancer-cells-in-culture-stock-footage/518876990
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/photomicrograph-of-lymph-node-with-hodgkins-disease-royalty-free-image/1429546115
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/hela-stock-footage/511505228
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/cervical-cancer-under-light-microscopy-zoom-in-different-stock-footage/1196772769
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/non-hodgkins-lymphomas-under-microscopy-zoom-in-stock-footage/903165546
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/radiology-technologist-sitting-in-the-control-room-while-stock-footage/1309331004
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/classical-hodgkin-lymphoma-mixed-cellularity-royalty-free-image/1409522737
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/hela-cells-in-culture-stock-footage/519876986
https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/907517/view
SOURCES:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK542333/
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/epdf/10.1098/rstb.2014.0219
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8860064/
https://www.nature.com/articles/bjc2017398
Usually on Journey to the Microcosmos, we spend our time delving into the microscopic world and the surprising things that microbes have to teach us. But today, we would like to talk about Hank Green, and what was his cancer.
Follow Journey to the Microcosmos:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/journeytomicro
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JourneyToMicro
Shop The Microcosmos:
https://www.microcosmos.store
Support the Microcosmos:
http://www.patreon.com/journeytomicro
More from Jam’s Germs:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jam_and_germs
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn4UedbiTeN96izf-CxEPbg
Hosted by Hank Green:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/hankgreen
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/vlogbrothers
Music by Andrew Huang:
https://www.youtube.com/andrewhuang
Journey to the Microcosmos is a Complexly production.
Find out more at https://www.complexly.com
Stock video from:
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/close-up-shot-of-microscope-stock-footage/860443522
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/death-of-gfp-expressing-cells-in-culture-stock-footage/511777412
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/human-prostate-cancer-cells-in-culture-stock-footage/518876990
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/photomicrograph-of-lymph-node-with-hodgkins-disease-royalty-free-image/1429546115
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/hela-stock-footage/511505228
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/cervical-cancer-under-light-microscopy-zoom-in-different-stock-footage/1196772769
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/non-hodgkins-lymphomas-under-microscopy-zoom-in-stock-footage/903165546
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/radiology-technologist-sitting-in-the-control-room-while-stock-footage/1309331004
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/classical-hodgkin-lymphoma-mixed-cellularity-royalty-free-image/1409522737
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/hela-cells-in-culture-stock-footage/519876986
https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/907517/view
SOURCES:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK542333/
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/epdf/10.1098/rstb.2014.0219
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8860064/
https://www.nature.com/articles/bjc2017398
This episode is sponsored by Squarespace.
Go to squarespace.com/microcosmos to get a free trial and 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hello.
Some of you already know this about me, but I’m Hank Green. And this was my cancer. Now, usually on Journey to the Microcosmos, we spend our time delving into the microscopic world and the surprising things that microbes have to teach us.
And oddly enough, that's actually going to be a part of our journey today. Because yes, everything does eventually go back to microbes. You and I are made up of tiny cells.
And sometimes those cells don’t do what we want them to do. For example, lymphocytes are a type of white blood cell whose job is usually focused on fighting off infections in the body. And like every other cell in the body, it is important that they do not grow out of control.
And that’s actually very tricky to manage, because any trait cells happen to acquire that allows them to make more of themselves will result in there being more of them and thus more of that trait. Evolution doesn’t stop just because cells are part of a larger body. In my case, my lymphocytes did begin to grow out of control, leading to a type of cancer called Hodgkin lymphoma.
And thanks to a number of factors including good treatment, the cancer is now, as far as we can tell, gone. And when I started this journey, there were obviously a lot of feelings to feel. But one of those feelings was surprise over just how much microscopy was involved in the diagnosis.
Maybe this is less surprising to other people. But in my head, things were going to come down to some kind of DNA test or something vaguely more computer-y. But when I talked to my oncologist, he explained that the diagnosis was the result of experts using their eyes and their experience and their tools to decide if what they were looking at under the microscope is cancer.
These slides contain a small portion of my lymph node that was removed and subjected to immunohistochemistry staining. Basically, we use molecules that have two parts… one part sticks to specific molecules and the other part has a visible color. If you put that molecule on the cells, it will only stick around (and thus be visible) if the specific molecule in question is present.
These are the “stains,” and we do this a bunch of different times with a bunch of different stains to see what combination of molecules are present on or in a cell, and that tells you what kind of cell it is. Buried in a Hodgkin lymphoma tumor are a number of cells that are like lymphocytes, but wrong. Instead of ordered circles, they’re larger and kind of mushy in shape, and they have multiple nuclei.
These cells are called Reed-Sternberg Cells, named for the past masters of microscopes who discovered them: Dorothy Reed Mendenhall and Carl Sternberg. But to fully confirm what you are seeing, you need staining to find the molecules that Reed-Sternberg cells tend to have plenty of. My biopsy report said that, quote, “The large atypical cells are positive for CD15 and CD30 with dim positivity for Pax5 and occasionally positivity for CD20, but BCL2 and CyclinD1 were not present…" all of those are surface proteins that different stains can attach to.
Knowing all of that information, the result was, quote, that “the histological features are most compatible with mixed cellularity classic hodgkin lymphoma,” unquote. Which, when I read these words, were actually a huge relief because, at that point, we knew that I had cancer, and Classic Hodgkin’s was the best possible scenario. Anyway, that’s how you can find cancer under the microscope.
There are other techniques needed to study biopsies and confirm the presence of cancerous cells. And there are other tests involved in diagnosing a person with cancer. But it’s remarkable that, at the end of the day, this complicated and destructive disease is something… you can just see.
Every day, someone is looking under the microscope to see whether the slide in their hands holds someone’s cancer. But there’s something else that cancer has made me think about. It’s this idea that maybe a cancer is kind of its own type of organism, a reversion of sorts to a past that is of course also very much present: the life of single-celled organisms.
We spend our days here on Journey to the Microcosmos swimming among them, watching bacteria swarm and ciliates attack. And it’s not that a cancer is a person's cells becoming those organisms. But rather, maybe something even weirder.
But to get there, let’s look at the reverse and talk about how organisms were able to become multicellular in the first place. Within the microcosmos, one of the organisms that has helped scientists understand the transition from unicellular to multicellular life is the Volvox. It looks a bit like a green golf ball studded with large craters.
But what we’re really looking at is a group of thousands of cells— something that resembles multicellularity. Volvox is a member of a group of algae called the volvocine algae. And as we sift through its relatives, we can see what feels like a reversion to single-celled life.
There’s the slightly simpler pleodorina, then simpler again with the eudorina. And from there, we go to the pandorina, the gonium, and then the simplest of all: a unicellular flagellate chlamydomonas that looks similar to these algae. It’s like a tightly edited evolutionary flipbook, played in reverse.
The cells feel less and less connected, their groupings becoming smaller and they feel less purposeful compared to the volvox. And we’re highlighting the volvox in particular because it’s a story of transition that scientists have been studying to better understand how life became multicellular. It of course cannot encompass the entirety of that transition, nor can this single organism answer the question of whether cancer is a reversion to single celled life.
But the differences across the volvocine algae, and the way that the volvox in particular survives, highlights the very features that our own bodies rely on to survive— features that cancers subvert. Volvox requires its cells to cooperate. The cells have specialized purposes, with the tiny somatic cells on the outside helping to move the volvox around, and the giant gonidia cells on the inside serving as the volvox’s reproductive organs of a sort.
And they’re all embedded in an extracellular matrix that holds them in place. For the organism to survive as a whole, the cells have to know their place. One idea that scientists have about cancers is that the cells involved in these diseases are essentially finding ways to defy the aspects of cooperation that multicellularity built.
Things like division of labor, the maintenance of an extracellular environment, and the way that resources are allocated— cancers cheat at those. Now based on what I’m saying, you might be wondering if that means that the transition from unicellular to multicellular life is also marked by the presence of cancers— whether we can find the disease in other seemingly simpler organisms. And the answer is maybe surprisingly, yes.
Sort of. A 2015 paper called “Cancer across the tree of life: cooperation and cheating in multicellularity” looked at cancers and cancer-like phenomena across a variety of organisms, including some Journey to the Microcosmos favorites, though we have not personally observed these phenomena. For example, planarians that have been exposed to carcinogens develop tumors.
And in the cnidaria phylum, both corals and hydra have been observed with their own sorts of tumors. Now we should note that it’s not just that these organisms are developing tumors. It’s that those formations involve behaviors that seem similar to what we see in cancers, whether that’s something going wrong in differentiation or a loss of the division of labor or something else.
And even our friend the volvox can have its own cancer-ish thing, with mutations messing up the identities of those distinct cell types. The idea of cancers as a return to something more ancestral is called the atavistic model of cancer. And the scientists pursuing this theory are grounding it in the specific genetic and cellular pathways that contain components present in both unicellular and multicellular life, and the way those pathways can become dysregulated in cancer.
And there are also other models of cancer with their own implications for how we understand the disease and for possible treatments. At the end of all of this is the feeling that cancer just… looks like something— something that isn’t us, even if it is made from the same stuff as us. It has the same DNA, and it's housed in the same body, but if I am a bunch of cells working together to get my genes passed to the next generation of human, then my cancer cells were not me… they were something new.
They were a single celled organism whose most recent ancestor was me, but they were not me. Cancers exist in opposition to the foundations that were laid for them, not just in ourselves, but in the billions of years that lead to us all. Thank you for coming on this journey with us as we explore the unseen world that surrounds us.
And thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode. Squarespace gives people a powerful and beautiful online platform to create their website. So whether you’re looking to create an online portfolio, start a blog, or open an online store, Squarespace can help you out.
Maybe you’re ready to start that podcast you’ve been thinking about. Well, you can use a blog page to publish and syndicate a podcast with Squarespace. You can even use your Squarespace blog to create an RSS feed so listeners can use their preferred podcast service to subscribe and download new episodes.
And they make it super simple to categorize, schedule, and share those blog posts. Squarespace also makes it easy to keep in touch with your listeners. You can interact with your community on your Squarespace site through threaded comments and replies, and can generate extra revenue through members-only content.
And if you decide you want to start selling some merch to go along with that podcast, Squarespace is also a powerful ecommerce platform, and you can even add third-party extensions to help you manage inventory, streamline bookkeeping, and ship products across the world. And you can do all of this on one easy-to-use platform. Go to Squarespace.com to sign up for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, go to squarespace.com/microcosmos to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
The folks on the screen right now, they are our Patreon patrons, the people who make it possible for us to continue doing weird stuff like this. They are the people who are in my head when I am emailing my doctor to say, “Hey, can you send me those slides? Because I got a really weird thing that I want to do with my own cancer cells.” So you're great.
Thank you so much. If you want to be one of these people, you can go to Patreon.com/JourneytoMicro. If you want to see more from our Master of Microscopes, James Weiss, you can check out Jam and Germs on Instagram.
And if you want to hear more from us, there's probably a subscribe button somewhere nearby.
Go to squarespace.com/microcosmos to get a free trial and 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hello.
Some of you already know this about me, but I’m Hank Green. And this was my cancer. Now, usually on Journey to the Microcosmos, we spend our time delving into the microscopic world and the surprising things that microbes have to teach us.
And oddly enough, that's actually going to be a part of our journey today. Because yes, everything does eventually go back to microbes. You and I are made up of tiny cells.
And sometimes those cells don’t do what we want them to do. For example, lymphocytes are a type of white blood cell whose job is usually focused on fighting off infections in the body. And like every other cell in the body, it is important that they do not grow out of control.
And that’s actually very tricky to manage, because any trait cells happen to acquire that allows them to make more of themselves will result in there being more of them and thus more of that trait. Evolution doesn’t stop just because cells are part of a larger body. In my case, my lymphocytes did begin to grow out of control, leading to a type of cancer called Hodgkin lymphoma.
And thanks to a number of factors including good treatment, the cancer is now, as far as we can tell, gone. And when I started this journey, there were obviously a lot of feelings to feel. But one of those feelings was surprise over just how much microscopy was involved in the diagnosis.
Maybe this is less surprising to other people. But in my head, things were going to come down to some kind of DNA test or something vaguely more computer-y. But when I talked to my oncologist, he explained that the diagnosis was the result of experts using their eyes and their experience and their tools to decide if what they were looking at under the microscope is cancer.
These slides contain a small portion of my lymph node that was removed and subjected to immunohistochemistry staining. Basically, we use molecules that have two parts… one part sticks to specific molecules and the other part has a visible color. If you put that molecule on the cells, it will only stick around (and thus be visible) if the specific molecule in question is present.
These are the “stains,” and we do this a bunch of different times with a bunch of different stains to see what combination of molecules are present on or in a cell, and that tells you what kind of cell it is. Buried in a Hodgkin lymphoma tumor are a number of cells that are like lymphocytes, but wrong. Instead of ordered circles, they’re larger and kind of mushy in shape, and they have multiple nuclei.
These cells are called Reed-Sternberg Cells, named for the past masters of microscopes who discovered them: Dorothy Reed Mendenhall and Carl Sternberg. But to fully confirm what you are seeing, you need staining to find the molecules that Reed-Sternberg cells tend to have plenty of. My biopsy report said that, quote, “The large atypical cells are positive for CD15 and CD30 with dim positivity for Pax5 and occasionally positivity for CD20, but BCL2 and CyclinD1 were not present…" all of those are surface proteins that different stains can attach to.
Knowing all of that information, the result was, quote, that “the histological features are most compatible with mixed cellularity classic hodgkin lymphoma,” unquote. Which, when I read these words, were actually a huge relief because, at that point, we knew that I had cancer, and Classic Hodgkin’s was the best possible scenario. Anyway, that’s how you can find cancer under the microscope.
There are other techniques needed to study biopsies and confirm the presence of cancerous cells. And there are other tests involved in diagnosing a person with cancer. But it’s remarkable that, at the end of the day, this complicated and destructive disease is something… you can just see.
Every day, someone is looking under the microscope to see whether the slide in their hands holds someone’s cancer. But there’s something else that cancer has made me think about. It’s this idea that maybe a cancer is kind of its own type of organism, a reversion of sorts to a past that is of course also very much present: the life of single-celled organisms.
We spend our days here on Journey to the Microcosmos swimming among them, watching bacteria swarm and ciliates attack. And it’s not that a cancer is a person's cells becoming those organisms. But rather, maybe something even weirder.
But to get there, let’s look at the reverse and talk about how organisms were able to become multicellular in the first place. Within the microcosmos, one of the organisms that has helped scientists understand the transition from unicellular to multicellular life is the Volvox. It looks a bit like a green golf ball studded with large craters.
But what we’re really looking at is a group of thousands of cells— something that resembles multicellularity. Volvox is a member of a group of algae called the volvocine algae. And as we sift through its relatives, we can see what feels like a reversion to single-celled life.
There’s the slightly simpler pleodorina, then simpler again with the eudorina. And from there, we go to the pandorina, the gonium, and then the simplest of all: a unicellular flagellate chlamydomonas that looks similar to these algae. It’s like a tightly edited evolutionary flipbook, played in reverse.
The cells feel less and less connected, their groupings becoming smaller and they feel less purposeful compared to the volvox. And we’re highlighting the volvox in particular because it’s a story of transition that scientists have been studying to better understand how life became multicellular. It of course cannot encompass the entirety of that transition, nor can this single organism answer the question of whether cancer is a reversion to single celled life.
But the differences across the volvocine algae, and the way that the volvox in particular survives, highlights the very features that our own bodies rely on to survive— features that cancers subvert. Volvox requires its cells to cooperate. The cells have specialized purposes, with the tiny somatic cells on the outside helping to move the volvox around, and the giant gonidia cells on the inside serving as the volvox’s reproductive organs of a sort.
And they’re all embedded in an extracellular matrix that holds them in place. For the organism to survive as a whole, the cells have to know their place. One idea that scientists have about cancers is that the cells involved in these diseases are essentially finding ways to defy the aspects of cooperation that multicellularity built.
Things like division of labor, the maintenance of an extracellular environment, and the way that resources are allocated— cancers cheat at those. Now based on what I’m saying, you might be wondering if that means that the transition from unicellular to multicellular life is also marked by the presence of cancers— whether we can find the disease in other seemingly simpler organisms. And the answer is maybe surprisingly, yes.
Sort of. A 2015 paper called “Cancer across the tree of life: cooperation and cheating in multicellularity” looked at cancers and cancer-like phenomena across a variety of organisms, including some Journey to the Microcosmos favorites, though we have not personally observed these phenomena. For example, planarians that have been exposed to carcinogens develop tumors.
And in the cnidaria phylum, both corals and hydra have been observed with their own sorts of tumors. Now we should note that it’s not just that these organisms are developing tumors. It’s that those formations involve behaviors that seem similar to what we see in cancers, whether that’s something going wrong in differentiation or a loss of the division of labor or something else.
And even our friend the volvox can have its own cancer-ish thing, with mutations messing up the identities of those distinct cell types. The idea of cancers as a return to something more ancestral is called the atavistic model of cancer. And the scientists pursuing this theory are grounding it in the specific genetic and cellular pathways that contain components present in both unicellular and multicellular life, and the way those pathways can become dysregulated in cancer.
And there are also other models of cancer with their own implications for how we understand the disease and for possible treatments. At the end of all of this is the feeling that cancer just… looks like something— something that isn’t us, even if it is made from the same stuff as us. It has the same DNA, and it's housed in the same body, but if I am a bunch of cells working together to get my genes passed to the next generation of human, then my cancer cells were not me… they were something new.
They were a single celled organism whose most recent ancestor was me, but they were not me. Cancers exist in opposition to the foundations that were laid for them, not just in ourselves, but in the billions of years that lead to us all. Thank you for coming on this journey with us as we explore the unseen world that surrounds us.
And thank you to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode. Squarespace gives people a powerful and beautiful online platform to create their website. So whether you’re looking to create an online portfolio, start a blog, or open an online store, Squarespace can help you out.
Maybe you’re ready to start that podcast you’ve been thinking about. Well, you can use a blog page to publish and syndicate a podcast with Squarespace. You can even use your Squarespace blog to create an RSS feed so listeners can use their preferred podcast service to subscribe and download new episodes.
And they make it super simple to categorize, schedule, and share those blog posts. Squarespace also makes it easy to keep in touch with your listeners. You can interact with your community on your Squarespace site through threaded comments and replies, and can generate extra revenue through members-only content.
And if you decide you want to start selling some merch to go along with that podcast, Squarespace is also a powerful ecommerce platform, and you can even add third-party extensions to help you manage inventory, streamline bookkeeping, and ship products across the world. And you can do all of this on one easy-to-use platform. Go to Squarespace.com to sign up for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, go to squarespace.com/microcosmos to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
The folks on the screen right now, they are our Patreon patrons, the people who make it possible for us to continue doing weird stuff like this. They are the people who are in my head when I am emailing my doctor to say, “Hey, can you send me those slides? Because I got a really weird thing that I want to do with my own cancer cells.” So you're great.
Thank you so much. If you want to be one of these people, you can go to Patreon.com/JourneytoMicro. If you want to see more from our Master of Microscopes, James Weiss, you can check out Jam and Germs on Instagram.
And if you want to hear more from us, there's probably a subscribe button somewhere nearby.