John: All right Hank, cold open this week because we have a couple of important announcements.  First off, Hank, you and I are going on tour to celebrate the release of my new book, Turtles All the Way Down, 
Hank: Whoo!
John: which comes out October 10th, 
Hank: Whoo!
John: and we're going to be in lots of cities.  Some of the shows are already sold out, but some are not. 
Hank: Yeah. 
John. So, if you live in Washington, DC;
Hank: Yeah! 
John: Charlotte, NC; Asheville, NC; Nashville, TN; Indianapolis; St. Louis, MO; St. Paul, MN; Missoula, MT.  Very excited for a Missoula show, Hank, we've never played Missoula before.
Hank: No, no, in fact, I haven't played Missoula since the very first show I ever played, which was a punishment on Vlogbrothers.  We're also gonna be in Spokane, WA; Portland, OR; San Francisco; Pleasanton, CA; and Los Angeles, CA.  We're also in Orlando, which you skipped because we haven't figured how to actually sell those tickets yet. 
John: Yeah, there's a problem because there is this big hurricane in Orlando, but we are gonna be in Orlando as well, hopefully tickets will be on sale by the time this podcast goes live.  We're gonna be in all those places, and you can learn more at TurtlesAllTheWayDownBook.com, and that's also where you can get tickets.  We'd love to see you in person to celebrate Turtles All the Way Down, and Hank also has an announcement. 
Hank: Yeah, everybody, our second announcement is that we're changing the way the phrase of the week works, which I like the suggestion from Rosianna for a more coherent strategy for phrase of the week, which is that John and I both have separate phrases of the week, two different phrases, and John knows his, and I know mine, but we don't know each other's.  And at the end of the episode, we're going to try and guess which thing the other person said was the phrase of the week.  So, you have to get it in, and that means maybe wedging it in at the end, but also maybe I am just going to say a bunch of weird stuff, and John's going to have no idea.  
John: Right, so we're going to see if this works better as a bit, thanks to all the listeners for their helpful game suggestions for making the phrase of the week better.  We really appreciate your guys' continuing support even when we have dumb bits. Thank you so much.
Hank: Yeah, your support and also, just condescending suggestions. Like we're trying to create some kind of genius game. No, we're being dumb. 

John: Your constructive criticism means a lot to us, and also your unconstructive criticism is also very helpful?

[into music]

Hank: Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John. 

John: Or as I prefer to think of its dear John and Hank? 

Hank: It's a comedy podcast, and which two brothers we answer your questions, give you a dubious advice and bring you all the week's news from both of mars and AFC Wimbledon. Hey John, how ya doing

John: I'm great. My book comes out in like three weeks, and I am a bit running around like a chicken with my head cut off, but I suspect that I shouldn't complain to you because you are experiencing the extreme jet lag of coming back from Australia.

Hank: Last night, I was at dinner. Mom and dad came over for dinner and we had some delicious food. And I was falling asleep at the dinner table. And so, they were like, well, let's let this poor child go to sleep because they're my parents and they still think I'm a child. And I had to edit some video. So, I went out to my office to finish editing my video and then we're recording this on a Friday. And then I didn't fall asleep until 2 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, that was fun.

John: I feel like first off, I know you were awake after 2 o'clock in the morning because I received two emails from you at 3: 18. But secondly, 

Hank: No, it couldn't have been that late. 

John: It was, it was, it was 5.18 Eastern time.

Hank: oh god

John: Maybe you shouldn't have been emailing when you were trying to sleep, but yeah.

Hank: Well, I said, what else am I gonna do? I have work to do, John. I'm either gonna be using my time wisely, but like in the sleep thing, or I'm gonna be using my time wisely in the getting what I'm doing. 

John: All right, well, the point being, we're not gonna be getting the best hank this week. That's everybody just needs to reconcile themselves to that reality. This is gonna be some substandard hank. He's going to do his best, but we're not going to get peak Hank right now. I've got a short poem for you today. It's by Langston Hughes. It was actually sent in by listener Shelby. Thank you, Shelby, for sending in a short poem and saving me the trouble of having to find one because I've pretty much run out of the ones that I know and like. This is a very good short poem though, and its sort of about death. It's called Final Curve by Langston Hughes. 

When you turn the corner and you run into yourself, / then you know you have turned all the corners that are left.

I like it. I like it. Nice and short, and it's about turning corners. Speaking of turning corners, Hank, can I read a science question to you that I already looked up the answer to so you don't have to do any guesswork?

Hank: All right, hit me.

John: The level of enthusiasm is infectious. This question comes from Connor, who writes, dear John and Hank, if the earth and everything on it was scaled up to the size of the sun. What size would humans be? Too lazy to do the math, Connor. 

Hank: Uh, Will, we'd be like puddles, little puddles of goo. Just

John: That is correct. That is correct. We would be tiny puddles of goo. Or maybe large puddles of goo.

Hank: Pretty big, large puddles of goo, yeah. Big puddles

John: one thing we would not be is standing upright

Hank: That's for sure 

John: everything on earth would look like you know those Those those fish that lie on the floor of the ocean and they have both both their eyes on the same side of their head Because they only have like one side of their head everything would look like that

Hank: a founder. I think is the one you’re thinking of

John: Oh, a flounder. We would all be flounders. Send the earth would be full of huge sentient flounders. 

Hank: Just sliding along. Yeah, it'd be interesting to me what to figure out what the actual properties of a planet that size would be with the composition of Earth, because of course, if a planet were that size and it were made of hydrogen, it would just be the sun again. But we're not, we don't have that much hydrogen on Earth or that much helium. So, fusion would probably not be able to start up. So, the question, but it probably still would be like a molten ball, there'd be so much pressure that the heat from the inside would reach the outside. So, in addition to being piles of goo, we would be quickly vaporized piles of goo. It's my guess. Though I can't be sure. 

John: So just to clarify, this is because of gravity.

Thanks: yeah

John: Because gravity on a much larger earth would exert much more force pulling humans down and making them puddles of goo.

Hank: Yeah, also, even if we were just, like, however much bigger the sun is than the earth, like even if suddenly we were all, you know, a million times bigger or whatever, I think it's about a million times. That's my, I didn't look this up, guess. If we were a million times bigger, we would still just be piles of goo because our bones would not be able to hold us up, and we would break them and then we'd just be flesh bags on, like sort of, slapping around on the planet. 

John: That's just a beautiful image, flesh bags, slopping around on the planet. It's one of those things that just brings it tear to your eye. While researching this question, Hank, I ended up falling down a rabbit hole of the question somewhat related, are humans closer in size to the earth or to an atom of hydrogen?

Hank: Hmm, I would say to the earth would be my guess. That is correct, by almost every way of calculating it. If you calculate it logarithmically by mass, we're about in the middle, actually. 

Hank: oh

John: But most ways of calculating it, if you calculate it by absolute mass, 

Hank: sure yeah

John: or if you calculate it by volume, et cetera, humans are much closer in size to the earth than they are to a hydrogen atom Which you know if you're ever feeling irrelevant just think like about how a relevant hydrogen atoms must feel 

Hank: Feeling.

This question comes from Cheyanne

John: Hank you, are *laughter*

Hank: I even just said dear John and Hank

John: That was terrible. 

Hank: that’s how tired I am

John: Honestly, honestly, I might have to fire you and go get a guest host right now.

Hank: I think I did great. Feeling. This question comes from Cheyenne. Dear Hank and John, I live in Arkansas where sadly means I have to travel extreme distances to see my favorite people like you guys. I'm also a high school English teacher and my English teacher, so my schedule is a little difficult to work around. 

eh there's substitute teachers.

 So, my question is how crazy would it be for me to fly to Georgia for 24 hours to meet you guys? Not from Wyoming, Cheyenne. 

John: Well Cheyenne, I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that I'm gonna save you the cost of a plane ticket. The bad news is that the show in Atlanta has sold out.

Hank: Oh man, I didn't think about that before I asked the question. What a shock! 

John: That's why I wasn't gonna ask it because it's just rubbing salt into a wound. It's just saying, okay, in addition to this not being a great idea, also you can't do it. However, Cheyenne, I do have some really good news for you, which is that I am currently looking at a map of Arkansas, and I think any of us would be shocked to find, to learn the geographic location of Arkansas. I certainly was.

Hank: I, yes, I'm looking at it right now on my map. That includes a picture of David Jeffers. Hey, David Jeffers, that's a joke for very select few people. And I find that it's really, really quite not where I thought it was. 

John: Who is David Jeffers? 

Hank: David Jeffers is a man who has shared his location with me on Google Maps. It's the only one who's ever, I don't know why, but he knows my email address because my email address is public. And he has shared it. So, I always know exactly where David Jeffers is. He's usually in Charlotte, North Carolina. I hope that he comes to our North Carolina show. So that I can meet David Jeffers. 

John: What the hell is going on? What is happening?

Hank: You know about David Jeffers, right John? 

John: No. 

Hank: He said… I once upon a time I was doing a live stream, and I had my screen sharing and I was looking on my map and there was David Jeffers shared up and I got really confused. I'd have found him on Twitter, and he was like, yeah, I shared my location with you. And I was like, well, it was like, “nobody else has done that?” And I was like, no, it's just you. Just none of my actual friends, no other strangers, just the map of the United States of America and David Jeffers. 

John: Okay, all right, I did not know about David Jeffers. I've never even heard that name before. I have no idea what's happening right now. I feel like I am on a train that is off the rails. And at any moment, I am going to fly off of a bridge and fall into the ocean. But the point is that Arkansas turns out to be right next to Tennessee. And Tennessee turns out to contain one of our shows, which is in Nashville. So instead of going to the sold-out show in Atlanta, that is further away from the not yet sold out show in Nashville, why don't you just go to Nashville? And yes, obviously, you should take time away from educating America's students to visit Hank and I in Nashville. Of course, that goes without saying, no, you shouldn't.  I don't know. Do whatever feels right. I'm going to feel weird, Hank, if somebody spends like plane ticket money to come and see us because the show, it's hopefully it's going to be like better than this pod, but it's not going to be that much better. 

Hank: Yeah, well, it's not really a plane ticket even. Like if you go from Arkansas to Nashville.

John: Well, we don't know we don't know where in Arkansas. This person is

Hank: It's not that big of a place. 

John: I assume that they live in Hot Springs, Arkansas because that's the best town name. So, I'm just going to I'm just going to find out how long it takes to get from Hot Springs Arkansas to Nashville, Tennessee. Based on my understanding of Google maps, it takes like three inches.

Hank: It takes. Well, so I just typed in Arkansas to Nashville and Google Maps has chosen just a completely arbitrary spot not in the middle of Arkansas to be where it starts. And it's a five-hour drive. But it is a completely arbitrary spot not in the middle of Arkansas. 

John: Right, but I'm pretty sure that this person lives in Hot Springs because that is a funny place name. And so, from Hot Springs to Nashville is six hours. So that's, I mean, maybe a six-hour drive is on the cusp of acceptability. Here's, I don't want to, I don't want to oversell the show. I want to be very clear about this Cheyenne. Like, there's going to be a live dear Hank and John segment. It's going to be maybe four to five percent better than the kind of sell optimal podcasting that you're used to. There's going to be some other segments that are going to be fun, and I think it'll be a great time. But I don't know if I would spend six hours alone in a car, I would, I would. But I like hank a lot. I love seeing Hank perform, so I don't know. It's up to you. Do what is best for you. 

Hank: John, I have an update. Okay. Regarding Arkansas. So, the arbitrary point not in the middle of Arkansas that Google Maps has chosen. Uh huh. It's in the middle of a field. It appears to not be a farm or anything, it's just a field like a... And next to the arbitrary spot that Google Maps has chosen to represent Arkansas is just a thing and it says, Women's Clothing Store. But it's not on anything. It's just on the field. It’s in the middle of the field. And it says, Women's clothing store, it has one star and one review, John. It has a review.

John: It has a review. I mean, that's great. 

Hank: It says it's from Liz C, a local guide who has 18 reviews. And a month ago she left this review, John. One star. Fake. 

John:  so, This poor- so Liz C, Liz C Local Guide, poor soul drives to the definition of Arkansas according to google which is in the middle of a field. I agree with you. I'm looking at it now. It isn't the exact middle of a field that does not appear to be cultivated in any way. There is no road. There does not appear to be this place does not appear to be accessible.

Hank: I think it's a cow pasture. I think I see some feed troughs. But yeah.

John: Yeah. It appears to be maybe pigs. It is some kind of animal field. And there is a sign that says women's clothing store and there's just a review that just says fake and the poor soul hiking out, You know into the middle of this cow pasture It must be at least a half mile walk from the nearest road the nearest road by the way is called peanut Ridge Road So you walk half a mile from peanut Ridge Road to women's clothing store in the middle of Arkansas as defined by Google Maps Only to learn that, shock of shocks it is fake. 

Hank: Goodness. Well, there’s also

John: We just saved so many people, so many trips to a fake women's clothing store. Like just when I was saying that this podcast wasn't that good, and you weren't at your best. You just literally took everything to a new and beautiful level. 

Hank: Oh well, it was a risky move, John. I feel like I made a risky move when it paid off. All right, you got another question for us. 

John: I don't. That's the final question. 

Hank: That's it. We're done. Why even continue?

John: All right, Hank, I can't believe we didn't answer this question first because it is time sensitive. It comes from Kelsey who writes, Dear John and Hank, help. I am 26 minutes away from meeting my blind date for this evening. What do I say upon seeing him? We've texted for a little bit, but I've never met this person face to face. Do I say, hello, Ricky? I'm Kelsey, but you already knew that. Do I make a comment about the fact that we share a birthday? Do I give him a hug? I need to walk the delicate line between being cool and still demonstrating an appropriate amount of excitement. Help me, help me, help me. Big fan of the pod, Kelsey.  Alright. First off, this email was sent to us six weeks ago.

Hank: We want an update. How did it go?

John: Based on Kelsey's apparent level of enthusiasm about this blind date, I suspect that they are now married.

Hank: Yeah, I mean, what's what's Ricky got that is so

John: I mean, I'd like to see I'd like to see Ricky's tinder profile because apparently it's amazing 

Hank: Yeah, just say whatever whatever impressed you so much about Ricky say that. Hello Ricky, your cheekbones astound me. The cat in the background of your picture on tinder that is a top notch cat I can tell that you are a cat lover. Your pot and pan set. I can tell you are an amazing chef. The fact that you have a basil plant there with your stuff like, top notch, you are something else, my friend Ricky. I heart you. It's what you should say.

John: Don't say that don't say that. I've been in this situation a couple times in my life. Most notably when I met my first major girlfriend who I'd known on the internet for a long time, but because it was a different era, we'd never exchanged pictures. So, she just told me, I'm going to be the person in the parking lot who looks like a cartoon character because my eyes are too big. And so, I was just like scanning, scanning, scanning. And then I did see a person with very big eyes, and I was like, Marie, and she was like, John, and that's how it started. So, I think that the first thing that you should actually say is Ricky?

Hank: Yeah. Yeah, you got pretty much Ricky question mark. Because you're not positive, though you probably are, because you've seen his tinder to profile with all the such and such. I don't know how it works, John. I haven't been on a date, basically ever.

John: I went on a date on Wednesday with Sarah. We had a great time. Actually, you know what we did? We had a wonderful date night. We had cocktails and then we went out to dinner and then it was only like 8:20 because I'm old. Ya know like, we looked at our phones at the end of dinner and we were like, the kids aren't even asleep yet. So, I was like, what do you wanna do? And she was like, I don't know, what do you wanna do? And I was like, we could go to Target. And she was like, yes. So, we went to Target. And there's something, it's funny because when you go to Target on a date, it's a completely different experience than going to Target just because you gotta like pick up diapers or whatever. So, we went to Target on a date and it was so fun and we bought all kinds of crazy crap. We bought this new trivial pursuit game that was super fun, and we went home and played it. It was just like going to Target. First, I know this isn't your question, Kelsey, but you need to take Ricky to Target. Because if you guys can have a great experience at Target, it is true love.

Hank: Yeah, man. That's not a bad idea. Nobody goes shopping on first dates. I feel like you'll learn a great deal about each other.

John: So, Sarah has a thing that we did that I thought was so sweet and cute and then eventually she confessed that she'd like previously done this date with every single boy she'd ever dated.

Hank: Oh man, all right.

John: But it is super cute. This is the date. You go to the dollar store, and you pick out one item for each other. So, like you can only spend a dollar, but you can buy the person anything. It’s a very fun date

Hank: I mean, that's a great and fun date. That's a great and fun cute date, but it is weird to think about Sarah doing that over and over and over. 

John: I wouldn’t say over and over and over again. I mean, it's not like it's, you know.

Hank: Yeah. What did she get you to, you remember? 

John: I don't. Thank God she doesn't listen to this podcast, right or id Be in trouble.

Hank: Okay, I think we got it. Chelsea, maybe Kelsey. Kelsey. I remembered Ricky in this name, but not yours. Ricky is a good name. 

John: Okay, get to the next question, Hank. 

Hank: This one's from Eric who asks, dear Hank and John, are you supposed to ask a father for his daughter's hand in marriage? I mean, like it's her hand. Shouldn't I just ask her? She's very forward thinking so I know that she won't care but I fear her father will take offense if I don't. Should I do it to respect him even though I don't think it's necessary. Help! It's happening October 13th. All right, we got it in time. We're in in time. Just barely, yeah.

John:  So, I don't know what you did Hank. I did ask, but I asked both of, I asked both of Sarah's parents. I didn't just ask her dad. And I also, Sarah knew that I was going to ask her parents. So I'm not sure that that really counts, so it was like for me, it was a way of observing the formality and saying to Sarah's family that they were important to me and we're going to be an important part of our marriage and that my relationship with them and our relationship with them was important while still not making the proposal contingent upon anyone other than the two of us really at its core. 

Hank: Yeah, that is also what I did. I think that that suddenly becomes a sort of weird question when they might say no,

John: Yeah

Hank: but I was not in that situation.

John: Right, I did have a pretty good idea going in that there was gonna be a yes, although I was still extremely nervous. And I have to say, I think I've told the story before of when I actually, when this actually went down, but like a month before that, I was with Sarah's dad who's a wonderful, warm, incredibly kind person and has become a great friend to me. But at the time, I found him extremely intimidating. Just, ya know intimidating. He's so smart and I remember being in his office and he was holding this crystal elephant paperweight thing, and he was holding it and crystal elephant paperweight thing, and he was like holding it and like moving it from one hand to the other and I was like, is he gonna throw it at me? And I couldn’t like, I kept trying to like bring up in some way the sort of like issue of whether this was going to be a sort of permanent arrangement between Sarah and me, and I was just like, you know what? We're going to have to abort. This mission is going to abort abort. Back away. Just be like great talk.

Hank: It's better to survive. 

John: Yeah. 

Hank: Then to win. Yeah, I remember, I mean, I called my, my now-in-laws on the phone, and I was like, “can I get both of you on the line?” So, it's not like they were confused about what was happening. I could feel like I called them a bunch. 

John: Right, right. Yeah. 

Hank: But yeah, I think it's, I think it's, and it is clearly based on, you know, the way that society is structured, which we don't always have to love. We do not love the effects of all of that, but I don't know that this is really upholding the patriarchy. It's just sort of like, ah, I think it's more cute. 

John: Oh, well, I mean, it depends on how it's done, like anything, and it depends on what the stakes are and all of that, and we don't depends on how it's done, like anything. Right. And it depends on what the stakes are and all of that. And we don't know the particulars of this. But obviously, I think that whether or not to get married should be a conversation between the two people getting married.

Hank: Yes, agree. That’s where it starts

John: And I feel like it should be a conversation. That's my problem with proposals is that too often they are not preceded by long in-depth, careful, thoughtful conversations. And there is something weird about the like, I ask you accept or reject thing rather than it being, you know, a place that gets arrived at together. So, in our case, like, there was a proposal, but there was also an awareness for many months before the proposal that we were going to get married.

Hank: Yeah, indeed. 

John: All right, Hank, I got another question for you. 

Hank: Okay. 

John: Why are you laughing? 

Hank: Because I'm so terrible at podcasting. No, you're great at it. That Arkansas bit was so good. Hey, Hank, why don't you go look up what Google Maps says other states Where other states are located and maybe see if you can find another fake women's clothing store? Meanwhile this question comes from Catherine who writes dear John and Hank help I just got tickets to the book tour, and this will be my first time seeing John in person (Hank isn't coming to my stop) Oh, right. I should mention that.

Hank: oh yeah

John: Hank will not be at the stops in Atlanta and Asheville. Instead, there will be amazing guest Hanks. Hank, I don't know if I should announce who the guest Hanks are because I don't want to like raise people's expectations that they're going to be celebrities, but because they aren't. But in my opinion, they will be better than celebrities. Also, I don't know if you know who they are. 

Hank: I, John, and the geographical or Google Maps chosen center of Illinois, which is, as you might expect, cornfield, there are, I don't know, 30 GMT global money transfer locations.

John: oh, so this is a pattern. So, it would appear that this is not a kinda one- time. 

Hank: There's also wait, John. There's also a, there's also was a Zara, but the address of the Zara is Al-Rov Mimila Avenue 8 Jerusalem 941-4904 Israel.

John: Okay. Well, that is a surprise.

Hank: So, it seems something has gone wrong. Well, Hank, I don't want to, I don't want to veer too far away from the question of who the guest Hanks are in Ashville, in Atlanta. However, in the geographical location chosen by Google to represent Texas, which is just off of a road called Frost Lane, I would say about an hour and a half south of Abilene, there is a hotel named Magougla. It's Magougla, it 2.3 stars and three reviews. One-five-star review in the last week from Bella who writes, “that is wonderful.” And then two one-star reviews with no particular text associated with them, but perhaps somebody made it to this completely empty field in the middle of Texas off of Frost Lane and discovered that there is not in fact a hotel named Magougla.

Hank: Magougla Oh my well, okay, so we've discovered some kind of bug with Google Maps John.

John: or have we

Hank: But if you would like to if you would like to transfer some money, the center of Illinois is a great place to do it. It's just corn fields and money transfer centers. So interestingly, the definition of Indiana, my home state, according to Google, if you just type in Indiana, it actually takes you relatively close. Oh, wait, no, that's my house. Oh, I see. It takes, okay, I see. 

Hank: It took you to your house.

John: Yeah, it knows where I am. Okay. I'm not sharing my location with you, but apparently, I am sharing it with Google. So there's gonna be guest Hanks in this Asheville and Atlanta stops. It's still going to be a very fun show, but there will be no Hank. Point being, what should you wear was the question, I believe. I don't even know. Oh right, yeah, the question is, what do people usually wear? Do most people wear like John Green or Nerdfighter-related shirts or nerdy shirts in general? Your advice is much appreciated. Turtles and tours, Catherine. Uh, Yes, most people, I wouldn't say most people, but a lot of people wear like whatever fandom you want to brag about, whether that's the Harry Potter fandom or some book you love, or if you want to wear a pizza-john shirt, you'll certainly never feel more comfortable in a pizza-john shirt than at a tour event. But anything that makes you feel comfortable and happy and relaxed and not overwhelmed, I wouldn't wear, necessarily, formal wear, although I will likely be wearing a suit, at least for part of the evening, you should not feel obligated to.

Hank: I'm not going to be wearing a suit. Though I may be wearing a kind of suit. It depends on how you think of how to suit. 

John: I got that email at 3:18 in the morning when you sent it, and I was just like what is like what is happening to Hank this evening? I can't reveal exactly what he purchased, but he was like, “I just purchased X suit, and I'd like to wear it at every tour event stop, but it will necessitate a quick costume change”. I was just like, why is Hank thinking this at 3.18 in the morning? And not asleep

Hank: I had a bunch of other really good ideas about the tour, a good laying in bed, and I did not. And then once upon a waking in the morning realized that they were low quality ideas. 

John:  Yeah, that is so, I mean, that is such a problem for me. Like if the ideas that I dream about were as good as the actual idea, I would be a genius. 

Hank: Oh, all right, John. This next question comes from Vanessa who asks, dear Hank and John. I'm getting married soon, and it's time to start addressing those wedding invites. Since you're both married men, and have been involved with the details of weddings, should the addresses on the wedding invite envelopes be handwritten or is printing addresses on envelopes acceptable? I realize that most of these envelopes are just gonna end up in hopefully the recycling bin, but this debate has caused quite a stir in my family. My mother insists that the 100 plus invitations be handwritten while my sister and peers. Think that I'm just gonna paraphrase here is silly. Ah, John, well, Vanessa concludes calligraphy pens and Carpal Tunnel, Vanessa. Yeah, I mean, it's so, why, they make it, this whole process is already a lot of work. You do not need to make it more work. Do you really need to make it more work? 

John: All right, we're gonna disagree about this. Okay. In the same way that like, you know, when you get the wedding, when you get wedding presents, if you're lucky enough to get wedding presents, when you write the thank you note, I think that even though I hate writing things out of my hand and it causes my arm to cramp and I just the whole time I'm thinking about how much faster this would be if I could type it and just email this thank you letter. I do think that there is value to the act and I know that this makes me a conservative old, fuddy dutty, but I do think that there is something to the handwritten note. I do think that there's something I understand Vanessas mom's position. I wouldn’t press it

Alright so Now, here's a thing. Here's a thing. I agree I wouldn't press it. Is what, what if you have paid someone to write it down? Is that, so like I know a lot of people who have done that, who've gotten calligraphers to write the calligraphy of the address. And to me, that's more work and you didn't do it yourself. So how is that better than getting a printer to do it? Well, it is very beautiful, though.

John: It is nice, it's lovely. 

Hank: I completely agree that it's lovely but is it about the aesthetic experience or is it about putting in like making this something that you did to show that you care about the people? 

John: Right. I 100% understand at some point, if you're if you're outsourcing the personal touch, is it a personal touch? 

Hank: Yeah. 

John: This is something that, like, that's what I thought about that a lot when people would say about the signing thing, with signing all the copies of turtles all the way down, when people would say, like, why don't you just get a stamp or an auto pen or whatever? And to me, it's like there's something about the physical doing of it, but at the same time, if you do something 200,000 times, it's obviously not that hard. You know, like it's not that, it's not that personal. And so there is a tension there that I understand. 

Hank: Everything that I have done 200,000 times was pretty easy. 

John: I would submit that you haven't done- one of the things that I liked a lot about the signing is that I don't think you have done a lot of things 200,000 times. 

Hank: No, it's a pretty small number of things. Like I've taken more than 200,000 breaths. My heart has beaten more than 200,000 times. 

John: Right, but that wasn't a choice. 

Hank: Yeah, but yeah, you're right. There's very little, I mean, you're right. This very very little I mean like I probably afflict my toes back and forth 200,000 times because I do it all the time and that's kind of a choice. It's like it's but it's definitely yeah back back there motor memory that's not something I'm thinking about. How many have I eaten 200,000 somethings? Is there something I've eaten 200,000 of Like, I've probably eaten 200,000 beans, for sure, definitely. Definitely 200,000 grains of rice. 

John: Well, yeah, but I don't, yeah, that's true. And like I said, 200,000 grains of rice. But I like, I like sort of exploring, as you know, Hank exploring extreme repetition. I've liked it since I was a kid. It's always been a source of joy for me. Today's podcast, in fact, is brought to you by doing something 200,000 times. Rarer than you might think. 

Hank: Rarer than you might think, and also a great way to develop a skill, like drawing a fish. This podcast is additionally brought to you by Substandard Hank. Substandard Hank. like drawing a fish. This podcast is additionally brought to you by Substandard Hank. Substandard Hank, available right now through the magic of Australia. 

John: And today's podcast is brought to you by Women's Clothing Store, Arkansas.

Hank: It doesn't have a city. It's just the state. And finally this, and finally this podcast is brought to you by John's father-in-law’s Crystal Elephant. Murder Weapon? Oh, it just paperweight

John: That's a good one, that's a good one. Oh, okay. All right, Hank, this question comes from Erin, who writes, Dear John and Hank, I have a mom and I am a mom. While I love my mother dearly, how do I get her to call me less frequently? She calls several times a day until I pick up the phone and these conversations last for hours. I'm busy at home with three kids, including a set of twins. And the time I do have a loan is better spent regaining my sanity than listening to my mom rehash her last meal and the effect of it on her bowels. She also says she’s developed cubital tunnel syndrome from the respective elbow strain of talking on the phone. Well, I have a solution for that, which is to get a Bluetooth headset. But that is not going to resolve

Hank: other problems

John: the larger issues of establishing boundaries and getting your mom to acknowledge them. Erin goes on to say that she's tried that repeatedly and that her mom gets hurt and then also just doesn't acknowledge the boundaries. It's one thing if you hurt somebody's feelings and then slowly, they understand the boundaries. It's another thing if you hurt someone's feelings and then they don't respect the boundaries anyway, then it's just frustrating.

Hank: Oh man, I have no solution, but this sounds terrible.

John: yeah

Hank: That's my, this sounds very hard. 

John: I mostly can also only commiserate in this situation because it's not fortunately not something I have a ton of experience with. I guess that I would say that it probably makes sense not to reach out, although I appreciate you reaching out to us, but to reach out to a therapist and maybe potentially even a therapist who you can talk with your mom, too. Since you're talking with your mom hours a day, anyway, maybe one hour a week with a therapist might help better acknowledge the boundaries and better establish them and keep everybody kind of playing by the rules. But I would recommend, I would really recommend talking to someone in this situation, a professional because I do think that that would be tremendously exhausting, especially when you have three kids, including a set of twins. Hank, is there anything in the world scarier than the words twins? I guess triplets. Triplets. Quadruplets is scarier. Quintuplets is a scary word. 

Hank: Erin has a follow-up question here,

John: yeah

Hank: but before I get to that, I will say, I don't know if this is a very practical suggestion, which is to text your mom and say, I can't talk today. And do that every other day. So at least you're not doing it and talking to her every day. 

John: Monday, Wednesday, Friday, just a standard 8 AM “Can't talk today.”

Hank: Can't talk today.

John: I don't think that's going to work.

Hank: I just don't see the route of the problem is a lack of getting texts saying that we can't talk today. But Erin’s follow up question is, do you guys have any advice on how I can get my three and a half year old to figure out the difference between pants and a shirt?  I mean…don't, that sounds great.

John: No, yeah, exactly. Hold on to that as long as you can. That's like,

Hank: It was cute. 

John: When Alice was little, instead of saying yes, she said aye or aye. 

Hank: like a pirate aye aye captain

John: And everyone at the preschool would be like, yeah everyone at like a preschool would be like yeah, exactly like a pirate. And everyone at like the teachers at the preschool would be like, have you noticed that Alice doesn't say, yes, she always says aye and I was like, yeah, I've noticed it. It's amazing. And they were like, well, we've been working with her on the word, yeah, I'm like, stop. 

Hank: its so cute

John: Do not work with her on the word, yes.  Once she starts saying, yes, she's never going to say, aye ever again, and it's amazing. I have to say that since then, Alice has started to say, yes, but she has also developed an incredibly cute, new, enthusiastic, yes. Like, when she's really psyched about saying yes to something, when it's like Alice would you like some ice cream? Instead of saying, aye or yes, she says, Yuppers. It’s just Oh my God, it's so cute, it makes me melt. 

Hank: John, okay, we got some good sign offs sent in, but before I get to those, I want to note that you, John was adding notes to the podcast document in the header area, and so the top of every one of our pages of the podcast doc just says, in all caps. 

John and Hank: ARKANSAS

John: No regrets, hashtag no regrets. All right, so we've got some of these name-specific signoffs. You might remember that we asked our listeners if they had any names specific sign offs for us. And Amy, nope, nope, wrong person's name, sorry. Amy, I'm sure you're great too, but that is not the person that I wanted to read the thing from. It was Miranda. Miranda sent in one, her husband is named John, and he signs off His emails “John voyage”, which is pretty great. I might do that. That’s a pretty good one.

Hank: I’m gonna go through a few Ali has “neither dilly nor dally, Ali” Lane says “life in the fast, lane” Page “onto the next, Page”. This is from Molly, “Poppin Molly.” I don't know. 

John: That’s a drug joke, I don't know if we make drug jokes on this channel, but it's not Molly's fault that she, that they ended up naming a street drug after her. Or maybe it is, we actually don't know much about Molly. Now that it occurs to me. We also got 757,000 corrections. And I want to thank each and every one of you for writing in to point out that Flameo Hotman was not as we assumed a Latin sign off, but rather a reference to Avatar the last air bender. I'm not sure how, like, what mind state we were in to think that Flameo otman was Latin.

Hank: I just I mean I watched the clip of Flameo hotman happening on Avatar the last airbender and I got to say it did did not make any sense.

John: It did not if you don't know Avatar on the last the last airbender it does not make a ton of sense, but also, so Hank, because I did not remember saying Flameo Hotman or whatever version of it I said, 

Hank: just twitter

John: People kept sending me that one particular clip from YouTube and I was like, I don't understand, is this a meme that I'm like too old to get? And so, for the longest time, so finally I went to Rosianna, and I was like, this is such a terrible like this is such a 40 year old person thing, but can you please explain this meme to me? And she was like, “that's not a meme you idiot. It's a reference to your podcast.” We also got a correction from Phineas who wrote in to say that when Hank called the lead singer of the band fish Trey parker, he was incorrect the lead singer of the band fish is Trey Anastasio and Trey parker co-created the television program South Park that's true literally nothing else in common

Hank: well, I mean there aren't that many Treys so

John: So... Um, yeah, I guess, I guess

Hank: that's my defense. 

John: There's a case to be made about that. Um, also, uh, Addy wrote in to say, how dare you, Ben got lots of presents, uh, and the night was entirely focused on him, Angerly, Addy, along with a picture from Ben's birthday. This is a reference to something that happened in the podcast that I don't remember. 

Hank: Amy writes in with a bit of response to say, I work at a pregnancy clinic and in response to April's question about what to tell parents when they see their baby and are concerned. I wanted to share that line that has worked for me. When I see a moment of concern pass over their face, I say he gets even cuter, which implies that the baby is already cute, but also not to worry. He's not always going to look that way. 

John: All right Hank, now we have to guess each other's phrases of the week. Are you ready to guess my phrase of the week? 

Hank: I am John.

John: What was it?

Hank: I think your phrase of the week was crystal elephant.

John: It was crystal elephant paperweight.

Hank: Oh, well, wow. Does that count

John: I Mean I had to make up a whole I made up a whole story about my father-in-law and a desperate attempt to fit crystal elephant paperweight somewhere in the podcast. It's very difficult, but yes, I lost. I think that was pot and pan set

Hank: No, it was basil plant you are close!!

John: I was in the right area, but I picked the wrong details. All right, well Hank wins the first round one and possibly only of the Phrase of the week game

Hank: No, that was so much fun. I was nervous the whole time. I was freaking out 100% of the pod. And while I was saying, Basil Plant, my heart rate was like 120 beats per minute. I was like, I'm doing it. Hey, Rico, I'm coming to my Basil plant. And I'm just gonna rush right past it and I was stammering. I was so excited.

John: The news from AFC Wimbledon is as follows. On September 9th, AFC Wimbledon lost two nil to Portsmouth in what was by all accounts, and not a very good performance. And then on September 12th, AFC Wimbledon drew one, one with Gillingham, the Gills, the Gilles, the Gillers, drew one, one, but it was purportedly, I did not see it purportedly, a better game, at least according to Twitter. AFC Wimbledon seemed more likely to score second goal, and we're very unfortunate to give up the equalizer. It's a very frustrating result, though, because Gillingham played an entire half of football with only 10 players, because they had a red, red card and so it's frustrating. This means that Wimbledon now it's tied, seven games into what will be a 46 game season. So too early to panic, but only one spot away from the relegation zone. Five points from seven games, which is not enough, not enough period hard stop. So that is the situation.

Hank: John, this week in Mars News, September 15th saw the end of the 20th annual International Mars Society Convention. I don't know if you know, but I was at the very first annual Mars Society Convention. So that makes me feel old. I've been in the Mars for 20 years, John. More than the number of things happened. George White's sides of Virgin Galactic gave a keynote address or a presentation where he discussed Virgin Galactic's move into powered spaceflight where they're starting to do good, good stuff following their accident on in 2014. The keynote address was by Anusha Ansari, and they even had a panel of science fiction authors including one of my faves, Larry Niven. So, so, so many good things happened at the Mar Society convention that I didn't go to or participate in, but it looks like a good nerdy time, just, just some serious nerd and out, John.

John: All right, there we go. That noted, we're now going to record our special podcast over at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn called this week in Ryan's, wherever week we discussed for five- or ten-minutes A Ryan, whose name is at this point almost never Ryan. But thank you to everybody for listening, Hank thank you for potting with me. What did we learn today? 

Hank: John, we learned that one of your first dates with Sarah was at the dollar store and one of your last ones was a target. 

John: That's right, we're moving up in the world. We learned that there is a lot of things in the middle of what Google defines as the United States.

Hank: We did, we did, we learned that the middle of Illinois has a lot going on. We also learned that shirts and pants are the same. They're the same.

John: Essentially. Essentially interchangeable. And lastly, we've learned that even a suboptimal Hank is still an excellent Hank.

Hank: Oh, thank you very much John. That's nice to hear. This podcast is produced by Rosianna Halse Rohas and Sheridan Gibson. It’s edited by Nicholas Jenkins the head of community and in something else is Victoria Bonjorno. 

John: laughs

Hank: What is communication? 

John: Communication.

Hank: Okay. The music that you hear is by the wonderful legendary, fantastic Optimal Gunnarola. And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome. You can email us hankandjohn@gmail.com

John: Great ending. That's so suboptimal.