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Join Dr. Lindsey Doe, clinical sexologist and host of the popular YouTube channel Sexplanations in a conversation about sex with filmmaker and video producer Nick Jenkins.
To support the show go to patreon.com/sexplanationspodcast.
For news and updates, follow us us on twitter @elleteedee
Special thanks to Count Boogie from the Perverted Podcast for jingles, Synema Studios for editing, and Nick Jenkins for co-hosting.
Ancora Imparo (I'm still learning)
To support the show go to patreon.com/sexplanationspodcast.
For news and updates, follow us us on twitter @elleteedee
Special thanks to Count Boogie from the Perverted Podcast for jingles, Synema Studios for editing, and Nick Jenkins for co-hosting.
Ancora Imparo (I'm still learning)
(00:00) to (02:00)
LD: I'm Dr. Lindsey Doe
NJ: Yeah, you are.
LD: I'm a clinical sexologist, which, today, means that I dedicate all of my professional life--some of my personal life--to learning about sexuality and sharing that knowledge with others.
Introduction
LD: Welcome to the Sexplanations podcast, episode one, where we take the show, Sexplanations, and we turn it into a verbal version. We talk about what happened in previous episodes; we talk about what's happening in sex now; we have an amazing guest host.
NJ: Set the bar a little lower than amazing.
LD: Aww no!
NJ: I am a guest host.
LD: You are amazing! You are the most requested person. Who-- Who are you? Here, I'm gonna tell you who you are
NJ: No, it's a secret.
LD: No, I love this! Today I'm joined by director, producer, videographer, editor, Nicholas Jenkins, the very first person to put me in front of a camera and say, "Let's talk about sex." Ah, we're gonna revisit the first time in my office by watching that episode on the YouTube show Sexplanations that we launched four years ago. We're gonna talk about what we've learned since, share some personal stories, and, generally, have a silly time getting smarter together.
NJ: Hopefully so.
LD: Those are my goals.
NJ: Good goals!
LD: Do you have any you want to add?
NJ: Uh, I really want to get more of a perspective from you of what that whole beginning journey was like.
LD: Hahaha! So fun! I don't think we've ever talked about the how-we-met story.
NJ: Not really, no, and I don't-- well, but, also, just, like, the day-of, like being on set that first day, so, today, we're gonna talk about that first episode.
LD: Yeah.
NJ: That's what we're gonna talk about and you can go and watch it and we're gonna talk through some of it. But what I-- the reason that I really wanted to do this was because I know what I was thinking, what I was feeling and everything, but I've always wanted to know what Lindsey was thinking and feeling. Um, and now that Lindsey and I are good friends and we hang out all the time, it's funny 'cause we don't really talk about that too much.
LD: No, I mean, we still talk about sex, but not necessarily--
NJ: Yeah, but not about that first episode and sort of what it was like to work with someone
(02:00) to (04:00)
NJ: for the first time like that. I just-- I don't know. I'm fascinated to go back and think about that so that's why I'm here.
LD: Any other information that you think our audience should have about you, in terms of what you bring to the table?
NJ: Um, just a little more background on me. I'm a film maker and I, uh, I'm a senior producer for CrashCourse, do a lot of things with Hank, um--
LD: Who the eff is Hank?
NJ: Who the eff is Hank? Hank is a very thin layer of soap accumulates upon your bathtub.
LD: Oh, nerdfighters just got so happy.
NJ: Heh. Um and I'm the editor for Dear Hank and John podcast and, yeah, I just-- I just do different stuff on the Internet.
LD: And you play the guitar.
NJ: I do.
LD: And you're a dad to a corgi.
NJ: You scared me there for a second. You followed that up.
LD: Hahaha... you're a dad.
NJ: She's not who I thought was. Um, yeah, I have a wonderful corgi named Abby(?~3:01) who is my best friend.
LD: Aww! That's cute. Okay, so, let's see. Random fact about me comes from this friend in high school. He told me that we were playing football outside in this field and the ball accidentally hit me in the chest and I shouted, "Ah! My breast!" and one of the teachers shouted my name to kind of scold me for my language and I reprimanded back that it was indeed my breast, that I was using proper anatomical terms.
NJ: How old were you?
LD: Probably fifteen.
NJ: Okay, okay, yeah.
LD: Yeah, I-- Go, me!
NJ: Yeah, go, you!
LD: I love hearing that I was sex-positive even in my youth.
NJ: Well, also, a different attitude towards authority than I would have had.
LD: Haha.
NJ: And good for that, good job.
LD: Five stars!
NJ: Yes.
LD: 'Kay, next. Uh, my current curiosity and I would love to know
(04:00) to (06:00)
L: Our guest host as well, is what kind of sex education the Obama daughters get from their parents. Do you have a current curiosity?
N: I am curious as to what makes people good at things.
L: Aww.
N: I am. I'm having this whole thing where I'm discovering my love of playing guitar and it's amazing to me how much I've fallen off cuz I haven't played in a long time and I'm just wondering, like, what makes people good at something for a really long time. They don't have to relearn it every couple of years, but maybe it's everything, so that's my curiosity right now.
L: That's so beautiful. I like it. Endurance! Alright, so Nick, before we talk about our sex positions-our positions, intellectually, on sexplanations the show and what's going on outside the world of the show, I want to introduce our audience to our first sponsor.
This show is brought to you by our extraordinary patrons on Patreon.com/sexplanationspodcast. The sexplanauts are like business partners, they help us make quality sex education accessible and improve sexual literacy. I'd like to give a shoutout to those pledged at the boss level: Laura Schuster, Donna, and the Millers.
For every Testes sponsorship that we do, it comes with a test question, a multiple choice sex question. According to state policies on sex education, how many states do not require sex ed to be taught in public schools?
N: Okay, so out of 50 say, "oh, you don't have to do that."
L: Yeah, so here are the options, A: 0, B: 9, C: 17, or D: 26
N: I'm goin' D
L: You are correct! Woo!
N: Yeah. Cuz we're terrible.
L: Booo
N: Yeah we're awful, so...
L: Yeah, that's more than half of our country does not have sex education required in the public school system.
(06:00) to (08:00)
N: Yup. We did an episode: The Sex Maps, where we broke that down and it even made you upset because you had to draw all the maps.
L: Yeah, it was rough.
N: It was
L: To see which states you don't have to have medically accurate sex education. So we're gonna provide you with sex education but it's going to tell you that condoms cause sexually transmitted infections.
N: Right. Yeah, no I remember that very clearly because it was one of those times where I became very aware of how much more effected by visual information I am. So having it on those maps it was just really, oh my god. Like, when you really play that out. We just had a thing for Crash Course, just about our overall channel.
Our friends at YouTube gave us a bunch of graph breakdowns and initially I would have said, "ugh, graphs, I don't wanna look at it, whatever." And then when I saw how the audience was breaking down in graphs and over time and everything it was like, really set in.
L: Yeah.
N: A lot of information about the channel and it's the same thing with the maps, like I started to have a deeper understanding. You start to sort of see problems appear.
I don't know how much of that is, what is it? The ink blot tests.
L: Rorschach.
N: Rorschach tests. I don;t know how much of that is my own psychology going into it but at the same time it was startling when I saw it laid out visually.
L: Okay, so more than half the states in our country do not have to teach public sex education.
N: Right and that was one of the questions too, like is it better to have no sex ed, or bad sex ed?
L: I know, I still don't know that answer.
N: Yeah.
L: So, here we go! Nicholas Gandalf Jenkins. Sexplanations now has a podcast. This is our first episode and I have invited you to kick off the show for two reasons.
1) Because we did Sexplanations together. We know what this is like, the process of getting to know someone and decide whether or not they're a safe person to talk about sexuality with.
and 2)
(08:00) to (10:00)
L: Because you have a damn sexy voice.
N: Oooh (attempts sexy voice)
L: (laughs loudly) That was awesome!
Yeah, when you would come onto Sexplanations and sit with me on the couch or when you did the identity episode, people would write in the comments about how they wanted you to do a narration for their lives.
N: I've always wanted to do more voice work. So, I started out at, my first job was as a DJ. On-air DJ, not a mobile DJ, on-air DJ. And I loved it. It was a really gratifying thing, but it's not a, unless you end up, like, you know, syndicated around the country it's not a well-paying job. So, I um(?~8:36) (??). But I've always wanted to go back to it for some reason. I like talking, I like hearing myself talk, it's great.
L: I like hearing you talk. So, let's do this. We're going to call this segment "sexpositions" because the intent is to go through, in chronological order, the Sexplanations episodes and kinda critique them.
[sexpositions theme song plays]
L: I'm Lindsey Doe. I'm a Clinical Sexologist, Bachelors in Psychology, Masters in Health & Human Performance with a concentration in Health Promotion and my Doctorate in Human Sexuality.
[SFX: whip and throat clearing (Sexplanations Intro), flashback underscored with gentle music]
L: There are three main things that I do as a Clinical Sexologist: one is to educate others, the other is to create an environment in my community that is sex-positive, the third is for me to work on my own sex life. As a Clinical Sexologist, I think it's really important that I be "walking the talk," and it's also really important that I'm modelling to other people a healthy sexuality.
I want to make sex education accessible to the universe. There are a lot of people out there who need accurate information. I'll give it to you. For free! The most common question-
(10:00) to (12:00)
The most common question that I'm asked is how I chose this field, and I think that the field chose me.
It begins with me growing up on a boarding school campus in Hudson, Ohio; I was around teenagers all the time, those hormone-driven, learning adolescent, puberty-blossoming individuals. I don't remember when the first realization was about being a Sexologist, but my high school classmates report that it was as early as high school. [whispers] It's a fun job.
Wanna know my favorite joke-or one of my favorite jokes? "What kinda pants does Mario wear? ... [imitating Super Mario World, Level 2 music] Denim-denim-denim."
[end flashback]
L: Montage of the episode. What do you think?
N: It's actually one of my favorite videos I've ever made for anything that I've done.
L: Ever?
N: Here.
L: Really??
N: Yeah, um, it's the most free-form? Like, we had no script.
L: Right.
N: Really, I think we-maybe we had some bullet-points? But generally, it was a-it was, it was legitimately just a chance for us to get to know each other, how we worked, and then get some good footage for-a first episode. So I was really out of my comfort zone. Um, because I'm a very-
L: Aw, I didn't know that.
N: I am very structured, I don't do doc-filmmaking, I do very rigorous narrative stuff, and that translates to camera as well-I like to have a camera locked down, and so this was very much a lot of freedom and a little bit of nerves to go in and-and try to get to know a person I was going to be working with-
L: Mm-hmm.
N: - ostensibly, and try to get really nice footage, but do it in a way that you felt comfortable -
L: Mm-hmm?
N: - with me, and in a way that I was happy with what we were getting, so it was really-that was probably one of the more adventurous things I'd ever done in terms of video-making and film-making. And so -
(12:00) to (14:00)
- and so that was really cool. At the time, it was scary. Because I didn't know, like, since I'd never done this, I wasn't aware of what I was gonna get.
L: Mm-hmm.
N: And that made me nervous. [laughs] Because I like to know generally what I'm gonna get, but no, I had a really good time. And there, you know, there are things I catch now that I wouldn't do -
L: Mm-hmm?
N: - if I had to do it all over again, but like, I'm very proud of that first thing because I felt like we did a good job in capturing you? And capturing sort of how I envisioned Sexplanations in terms of visual language and using that space that we had, which was your office.
And it was, so yeah, it was-I'm very proud of that first episode because-mainly because-not because I think it necessarily broke new ground online or, you know, had a million hits or anything like that, but because it allowed me to stretch my legs and get to know somebody in a new way. Which I hadn't done before, so, so yeah, I like, I really like that first episode.
L: Oh, that so lovely to hear. Because I, I wonder how it was for you to, you know, have this new person to work with and she's talking about sex without any social regulation? And, you know, showing you around and being silly and, I definitely did not know what I was doing, it was the first time that a lens was in my face for that period of time.
And when you showed me the cut, I just remembered this ear-to-ear smile of just, "Wow, how did he do it? How did he," you know, "create this Lindsey Doe?" that could then go out into the public and hopefully the audience - that Hank Green was providing us - was going to trust her. That she could speak about sex in a fun way, in a trustworthy way that, yeah, I think you did a great job. I do remember in that episode that I had longer hair in the back, -
(14:00) to (16:00)
L: - had longer hair in the back, like a mullet going on -
N: You did!
L: - and I didn't have time to get it cut because we were just, like, putting things together so quickly? And so I tried to use bobby pins and pin it up, and it didn't work -
N: [laughs]
L: -And so now every time I watch, I'm like, "Oh, yeah." That there is a younger me who, you know, is just doing the best that she could and having fun, and I'm so glad that you captured the playfulness of that, and that got to be the brand of Sexplanations. That it's not this uptight, clinical model, but it's really joyous and free and, you know.
N: Well then, that was the other thing, was, you know me really well now, and you-I'm not a playful person, like, I'm very, like, I don't like to be silly, I-I-[chuckles]. And so that was a real interesting thing for me to do as well was being a part of a channel that was dealing with serious things that was also not taking itself too seriously; it was being playful, and being-and being fun. And so that-so I got to-especially for that, I don't know how long we were in the office for that episode? Probably 45 minutes to an hour?
L: Mm-hmm?
N: I got to just be playful. And it was fun [chuckles], and that was not something that I was used to doing, and there was, you know, it had its own pressures. Like there was the pressure of like, "I wanna start this new show, and I wanna make sure Lindsey looks good, and, you know, and everything is-is gonna work, but there was also less pressure? In a lot of respects?
Like, working on Crash Course there is-there are a lot of different pressures sort of coming at me and in a lot of different directions. And in this one, it was very straightforward that it's just like, "Yeah, I just wanna create this new thing and see if it works." So the pressure was more, "Is this going work."
And I had already dealt with that with SciShow and Crash Course, so I was used to sort of dealing with that pressure, like, "Well, okay. Hopefully, this is gonna be successful. But. I'm gonna go in and just do the best I can," and had a really good time. So what I'd like to know is -
(16:00) to (18:00)
N: - know is - this is really important to me - what did you feel like when we were in there and I did-I had a camera on you, and we were talking, and you were talking about sex with this, you know, with this pretty much stranger in the room -
L: A bearded man.
N: I wasn't bearded at the time. [chuckles]
L: That's true.
N: I might've had a goatee, I don't [chuckles] I don't remember now, but. We's have to watch the, the hankschannel -
L: Ooh, yeah yeah yeah...
N: - video we did at make-out point. [silence]
Both: [chuckling]
L: We should put some words around that.
N: [laughs] Go ahead!
L: So, yeah, so on June 9th we were the night before launching the show, we went up to what's called "make-out point" in Missoula, a mountain top that overlooks the "Lake of Lights," or our city, and we celebrated with Hank: it was Nick, Hank, and I-
N: And Abby
L: - and Abby, and -
N: My corgi, for those of you who don't know.
L: Yeah, June 9th, 6-9. And then, the following day, June 10th, we launched episode one, and to answer your question about what that felt like, -
N: Mm-hmm?
L: I think I have to go into almost every situation feeling confident about my ability to talk about sexuality with the person and just trust that they can handle it, and if they can't, then I pull back. But it's not often that I will go in slowly. I think I like to have people meet me where I am, and then, once I know where they are, go toward them. Does that make sense?
N: I think it makes sense to me, but I think you could unpack that a little bit.
L: Okay! So, you and I had met about a month before then -
N: I think so.
L: - when we were gearing up to do the show, and you're very clearly an incredibly professional person; there was no intimidation present on you, like, "Ugh, this person, she has her Doctorate," or "She's gonna talk about sex," or "She's a woman," or wha-you know, any of those things that could -
N: [chuckles] "You woman!"
L: [chuckles] - that could be put on me. You were so professional, and you came to the office, and you were ready to go, -
(18:00) to (20:00)
L: - and you guided me, right? You understood that I didn't know what I was doing, that I'm the new person on set, and really, simultaneously gave me encouragement to be in what I wanted to do and how I wanted to express it.
At the same time, guiding me in that process and saying, "Okay, this is what your intent is, here was the impact on it, and how can we get it so that your intent matches the impact so that the audience understands you and what you're trying to say. And you did that, repeatedly, from episode one-minute-one all the way through in those two years that we got to work together.
N: Great! [laughs]
L: Yeah! Yeah, I never ever, ever felt like, "This person is a threat to me, he doesn't care about what we're doing, that he is a hypocrite," right? "And he's helping me create this really honest information about sexuality, but in his personal life, he's being a jerk." Like, at all moments, I recognized, "Nick has integrity, Nick has this channel's best interest in mind, and he is going to help ME be the best host for it I can.
N: Hm! Well, thank you. [chuckles]
L: Thank YOU!
N: I, I guess one of the things that has always occurred to me when doing something like that, especially 'cos we're going in to talk about sex, was that I wanted to make sure that at no point did you ever feel in any kind of way threatened.
L: I didn't.
N: Good. Because, I mean, that is a very big deal to me. Like, I wanted to make sure you felt free and safe, because this-, you know, a person you don't know very well, regardless of gender, -
L: Mm-hmm?
N: - a person you don't know very well going into your personal space, your office, and then, you know, it is, that could get a little, you know, I'm not saying it could devolve into anything, but it could, it could make you feel, you know, wary.
L: Yeah!
N: And so, it was my biggest thing is like, "Always make sure Lindsey feels comfortable!"
L: Aw!
N: So.
L: Well, it would've totally changed the dynamic had there been any fear that you weren't going to take my voice -
(20:00) to (22:00)
L: - you weren't going to take my voice and communicate it correctly, or if you, you know, had some judgement toward me that could come across in the way that you edit, I don't think that the content we created, what we, what we made together would have been what it is.
N: I think that's fair. But yeah, I love that episode.
L: Aw.
N: There are a lot of other ones that I think as we-, as you go through this, that I really like the, the topic -
L: Mm-hmm?
N: - of whatever we're doing. But that's the one that I sort of hold in a special place because it allowed me to do a lot of experimentation, which at the-at the time was super important to me because Hank was giving me an opportunity to experiment. And Michael Aranda had started The Brain Scoop, and it was sort of the attitude of like, "I want to do something like that," and the idea of a channel about sex, "That's great, I'm into sex education," and I've, you know, I want people to be more educated about not just sex, but everything. But, you know, sex, I feel like is really important.
And the idea that you are also an educator -
L: Yeah?
N: - who had worked in the same university [chuckles] that I had worked in, so we had some -
L: [chuckles]
N: - commonality there.
L: [laughs] Yeah, we did!
N: Yeah! A looot of things we talked about. It was-so it was a great, it was sort of the best-case-scenario for risk because I COULD experiment; I felt empowered to experiment, especially in that first episode to see, "Well, that worked, that didn't work, this-," you know, "Let's move this around," and we definitely over-shot, there was a lot we didn't use. But, yeah! I just, I really loved being there.
And it was one of those things I just always wanted to know, like: "Were YOU having a good time? Were you stressed? Were you-?" I mean -
L: Oh, I'm sure there was some stress.
N: Sure.
L: Just doing new behavior, like this podcast, I don't know how to do a podcast, I've never done one, there's-there's some stress to it.
N: [chuckles]
L: But I get to have fun making it because the people around me are very supportive in letting me figure that out and then cutting it together in ways that are graceful, and the fear -
(22:00) to (24:00)
L: - the fear of what it's going to be is so much smaller because I have models for how it's been done in the past.
N: Sure. Yeah. And, you know, the only sex channels I had watched, I think (?~22:13) Lacey's, and then maybe one other? I'm not really sure, I can't remember off the top of my head, but I do remember those were very much "vloggy-style." And they weren't A. Show. Necessarily.
L: Mm-hmm.
N: Not meaning that to cut down what Lacey was doing, it was just they were different -
L: Yeah.
N: - different types of, of things. So, I felt like I was doing something kinda new. And that was exciting. So yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun, I had a great time. And you know, if you had to do it over again, if you had to start from scratch, you know, some mystical thing happens and "tabula-rasa," nobody remembers anything, what would you do differently? Or would you do anything differently for that first episode?
L: I would've gotten a haircut.
N: I can see that.
L: [chuckles] I would've gotten a haircut, I, I'm glad, actually, that I didn't understand the world of writing scripts at that time, because I do like how free-form it was. [thinking] Mmm... No.
N: My big lesson from that and the next two episodes -
L: Mm-hmm?
N: - was, "Take more time for sound." [chuckles]
L: [chuckles] Oh, mm-hmm, yeah.
N: So, for that first episode, though, I think we did a good job of masking it, but we, you were wearing a lot of jewelry. Which is strange because you don't normally wear a lot of jewelry.
L: Right.
N: [laughs]
L: I think the mic was oonn-
N: It was actually -
L: - the necklace
N: We can nowhere to clip where your necklace wouldn't collide with it?
L: Uh-huh?
N: And it, and you said, "Why don't we just clip it to the necklace? Right here." And I was like, "Fine!"
L: And you weren't, like, [chuckling] "Why don't you just take the necklace off?"
N: Yeah! [laughs] Um, because I didn't know you at the time!
L: [laughs]
N: I thought, "Well, maybe this is a big part of who she is - jewelry!" And the issue is, of course, -
(24:00) to (26:00)
N: - is, of course, the other thing is, for those of you "techie-people," we were shooting on a Canon 7D - my personal Canon - which, you coudn't monitor sound. All you could do was sort of look at the levels and go, "Looks right!" So, I didn't know that it was picking up the jangle-
L: Mm.
N: - of the necklace a little bit. You know, I'm not inherently a sound-guy, so. [laughs]
L: I think it's beautiful and wonderful. And! On the topic of the necklace, there were, I think, four charms on it that I had just strung together that day: one from my childhood best friend, one from my brother, I think one from each parent. And so, you know, there's a sweetness to that jingle that interrupted your sound perfection.
N: [laughs]
L: Like I had my people with me. You know?
N: I-it'd-we-yea-, that would be the only thing that I would change though -
L: That's fine-
N: I mean, even at that, I wasn't really upset -
L: Good.
N: - by it. I was just sorta like, "Eh, that's something I shouldn't do. And now I know." [chuckles]
L: [chuckles]
N: And if I had-if I'd been monitoring sound, I immediately would've gone, "Oh no, no; we can't do that." [chuckles] But wasn't, wasn't monitoring sound. So. And I want it to be very clear! That I was INCAPABLE of monitoring sound.
L: [chuckling]
N: There's no headphone jack coming out of a Canon 7D. Doing the best I could. So.
L: You did a great job, Nick.
N: Thank you! You also did a great job.
L: Thank you.
N: It was a-it was a wonderful episode that I am still proud of to this day.
L: Good. So! We're gonna do another message from a second sponsor.
N: Hit me!
L: This is a segment called, "Main Squeeze."
[Main Squeeze jingle]
Maaiin squeeze!
Ah. Ah. Ah!
[end]
L: As a group, we're all going to do kegels together, which are exercises that strengthen the pubococcygeus muscles -
N: Girl, I know what kegels are -
L: I-I'm tellin' our audience, man!
N: Oh, okay.
L: You know? We want them to know that they're doin' the right thing. You're NOT going to pee, but you're going to squeeze your muscles that would stop you from urinating if you were, and then release and squeeze and release and squeeze; and we're gonna do this by the sound -
(26:00) to (28:00)
L: - by the sound of the moans.
So, I'm going to read through our sponsorship plug and every time you hear a moan, [SFX: short moan, "Ah!"], you're gonna squeeze and release. 'Kay?
N: Got it.
L: All right. "Adam & Eve dot com is an online superstore for adult shoppers. [SFX: moan] That sells dildos, [SFX: moan], buttplugs [SFX: moan], vibrators [SFX: moan], lube [SFX: moan], condoms [SFX: moan], and sex swings [SFX: moan x2]. All at affordable prices. [SFX: moan]"
Now, just clench your PCs and hold without releasing while I tell you their awesome deal for you.
"At Adam & Eve dot com, you can use the discount code "DOE" to get 50% off an eligible item plus free shipping anywhere in the U.S. or Canada."
Okay, release. Now a few more: clench, hold, release (x3). How's your pelvis?
N: I have to pee. [chuckles]
L: [laughs] Not yet, Nick.
N: Okay.
L: I want to hear some of your personal anecdotes around the topic of meeting someone new and talking to them about sex.
N: I think it's a really weird thing for me, because I don't have much of a filter?
L: [chuckles]
N: I mean, I do. I'm-I'm perfectly capable of functioning in an office, and it, I'm not, like, dangerous for [chuckle] for an HR department. But I'm pretty good at "judging the room," so to speak -
L: Mm-hmm?
N: - and judging the person I'm talking to, and once I've gotten to know that person, I'm fine communicating with them about anything. Like, I don't really have any things that [affected voice] "I will NOT talk about!"
You know, so, in some respects, getting to sit down and chat with someone very openly about sex, about controversies, and being able to learn! Like, this is one of the things - if I can't, if I can't talk about it with people, -
(28:00) to (30:00)
N: - talk about it with people, how am I supposed to learn about things? How am I supposed to learn if I'm saying or doing something wrong? How am I supposed to learn if an understanding of some aspect of sex or sexuality has changed if I haven't been able to talk with anyone or if we're not able to publicly talk about it.
So, just having that opportunity was like, "This is great!"
L: Yeah!
N: Like, I enjoy it, and that's what Sexplanations was to me. Was the idea that we're publicly going to be talking about this. So I, so everyone can then have the opportunity to say, "I didn't know that. Now, I can analyze my own beliefs or my own understandings of the world, or sex, or just interpersonal relationships. So.
L: Right.
N: So, for me, there was never really a...
L: Even in childhood? Or? Wher-
N: No, I'm just talking about when- really, with you, but like, if we talk about in childhood, like childhood friends, you just sort of read who your friends are and how what they like to talk about.
My best friend in high school was a VERY religious person. And his father was an actual pastor at their church and actually lived on the church grounds. And it is still, to this day, the nicest family in the world, and they knew that I was an atheist, and they never once talked to me about trying to recruit me or anything like that.
But I also had respect for them and not talk about things that I knew would upset them. And if I ever did, which I don't think I did, but if I ever did, I would've immediately apologized -
L: Right.
N: - because you know, they, they understood my boundaries, and I understood their boundaries. And I feel like I just take that to everyone I know. You know, sitting down and playing board games is a different social environment than sitting around the table for a meeting, and you know, and sitting down and making a video with you is different than sitting around and making a video with Hank - it's just all -
L: Right.
N: - it's just all different. And everybody has different boundaries, and everybody has different things -
(30:00) to (32:00)
N: - that they're okay talking about. And learning about what those boundaries are, you know, in subtle ways, it's, it's kind of fun. And I, I think that's, I don't know, it's one of the few things I really love about people, is being able to figure out how they're different. [chuckles]
L: Aw, yeah!
N: And what they want-, and you know, I say that and I'm sure some people might think, you know, that applies to everything and I think, "No." There are times when you have to look at somebody and go, "You need to stop what you're doing, because this is harmful." Or whatever.
L: Mm-hmm.
N: And I'm not talking about that, I'm just talking about in very relaxed conversation, what can you talk about with people. And so, yeah, I've just always done that. I've always, I've always enjoyed doing that, like, on a one-on-one basis. I get really flustered if you put me into a large group of people.
L: [chuckles]
N: I find rooms like that very hard to read, and I just end up sort of backing into a corner and, [affected voice] "Look at all the people having fun!" And that sort of my thing. I mean, how have YOU dealt with that?
L: Learning to communicate with people in different situations -
N: Yeah.
L: - about sex?
N: Yeah. Like, I mean, w-, did you struggle with it when you were younger?
L: I don't think so. I think that with parents, who were very open about the diversity of human nature in all forms and very accepting of education and seeking knowledge, I was raised in a home that was very permissive. That being said, there was also a religious background to that home, and I grew up thinking that I was gonna wait until marriage.
And it actually wasn't until I was probably having sex, where I was like, "I guess I'm not waiting, -"[chuckles]
N: [laughs]
L: "- because this feels so good, and so right, and I can't imagine a system that would tell me that this is wrong." Or, "I know exactly what that system is, but it's not aligned with what believe -
(32:00) to (34:00)
L: - aligned with what I believe now."
N: Sure.
L: And so, I think, yeah. From the beginning, I was able to talk about sexuality, I can remember having conversations with my dad about masturbation, and I was telling him, "The guys at school ," - this was in high school - "- they're talking about masturbation," and he just talked openly about how, "Yeah, that's okay. And you can masturbate, too. And that's very healthy, natural, normal."
And, you know, my best friend growing up, she was the daughter-, er, IS the daughter of a urologist, and so there was a lot of sexual knowledge there that I could get from her, her parents. And the conversations were pretty easy, I would say, until I started seeking education - formally - in sexuality.
Then there were some trouble areas in college, especially where people would say, [loaded tone] "Ooh," like, "You're a Sexologist; does that mean you want to have sex with me?"
N: [laughs]
L: And it took me some work, especially in Missoula, Montana - where we are, this small town - to create for people an understanding of what "Sexology" means and a reputation for that that wasn't about having sex with everyone who wanted it; it was more about studying it like you would any other discipline, and sharing that information with others.
N: Right.
L: So, as I made more of a space for myself here, I feel like people could look at the career I had chosen accurately and say, "Oh, yeah. That's Lindsey Doe, she's a Sexologist," or, "That's my," you know, "Professor in Human Sexuality." And there was no attachment to certain sexual shaming or taboo.
N: Sure. I know, that's great, I - yeah, I don't have anything else to add there. [laughs]
L: That's okay! Do you remember the first time that you talked about sex?
N: I don't know. I don't have a crystal-clear memory of, like, an on/off switch. [laughs] So -
L: That's okay!
N: - I don't remember. I-, you know, I had a -
(34:00) to (36:00)
N: - remember, you know, I had a-a fairly open childhood in terms of the media that I consumed? So like, I watched, growing up I watched rated-R movies, and like, it was never - there was never a feeling as though there was media for kids and media for adults -
L: Hm.
N: - in my place? There was once you get into things like pornography, and I do remember the first time seeing a porno magazine was, I was living in an apartment complex and somebody had thrown a bunch of them out in the alley behind the, behind the complex. And [a "storytime" tone] aall of the kids in the complex gathered together to look at this "artifact."
L: How old were you?
N: Oo. Say, maybe seven or eight?
L: Mm-hmm?
N: So, um - and it was, you know, it was definitely like, "Oh! That's a thing," but I had seen naked bodies -
L: Mm-hmm.
N: - in movies, and things like that, so it wasn't something that I was really shielded from, but I think I was, I think I kind of had been shielded from it as like, "This is the sole purpose of that piece of media-" [chuckles]
L: Yeah.
N: "- is just for eroticism." So that was, I would say that might be the first time I remember? Seeing something and thinking, "This is specifically for one thing."
L: Oh, interesting.
N: You know? I'd say that was probably it, and then in the late 80s, my father and brother owned a video store, and we had a, you know, a "porno" section that was cordoned off. And so, every once in a while I worked there and I would check out the, the tapes, so I was always, "Oh, Little Shop of Whores," was [laughs], you know -
L: Ooh.
N: Things like that. But yeah, I was never, like - and my mother used to get very angry when we watched something on television and they would cut out something that had nudity in it or something. She would REALLY mad. Not because she wanted to see the nudity, but because she felt like, "If you're gonna show the movie, show the movie."
L: Yeah.
N: Don't [chuckles] -
L: Authenticity.
N: Yeah, she's like, - so Conan the Barbarian was one of the first ones I remember, and there was a lot of nudity in that first film, and you know, it was very -
(36:00) to (38:00)
N: - you know, it was very matter-of-fact, my mother SPECIFICALLY was very good about not shaming people, you know, for "Sex and enjoyment of sex shouldn't be shameful." That was something that I-, that SHE, specifically, raised me to believe.
L: Yeah, it rubbed off on you. I like that!
N: Good!
L: Thanks, Nick's mom!
N: [laughs] Her name is Gloria.
L: Thanks, Gloria!
N: [laughs] So, yeah! It was just that sex should never be a shameful thing, was probably the closest I ever got to having a "discussion" about sex. Even though we've talked about some of the CRAP sex-education that I've had -
L: Mm-hmm.
N: I actually did have a fairly decent th-, I wanna say in 7th or 8th grade we had a Bio[logy] class where we actually had a f-, you know just a very generic breakdown of sexual reproduction tha-, that's still pretty accurate to this day, so. I feel like that was where I probably had the first real, solid understanding, maybe? I'm not sure.
L: Did you learn about the clitoris?
N: No! [undertone] Where did I learn about the clitoris?
L: I really hope it's not from me.
N: No!
L: [laughs]
N: No, god no.
L: Good! Well done, whoever taught -
N: I mean, [chuckles] you know, I mean -
L: - Nick about the clitoris!
N: - I would say probably - here's the thing: I learned a lot about the world through movies and television. And I feel that's fairly common with people in my age-range.
L: Oh, yeah! But even now, 75% of people are getting their sex-education from the internet.
N: Right.
L: Yeah.
N: Well, and, you know, I mean, I - so, in '97, I was twenty, and that's about when I got the internet at home.
L: Mm-hmm?
N: So prior to the internet, most of my sex-ed came from little bits and pieces at school, and then just like, movies would joke about something. And then, you know, you and your friends would talk about... weird shit that you talked about -
L: [chuckles]
N: - at the time. And, you know, looking -
(38:00) to (40:00)
N: - and you know, looking back on it now, nobody knew what they were talking about. Even though there were those people that you THOUGHT knew what they were talking about - they didn't, -
L: Aww!
N: - they had no frickin' clue what they were talking about. So, I mean, yeah, I know that there were things, there were movies that talked or joked about the clit, and there were-, you know, so. But I, I don't know where I first learned about it.
L: Me neither.
N: Yeah. [laughs] For me or for you?
L: For-, well, for me!
N: Oh, okay.
L: I don't remember learning about the clit, I heard-, have no recollection of (?~38:30)[intelligible] -
N: Well, you HAVE one, so -
L: I do! But, it's very hidden and tucked away, and like -
N: Yeah?
L: - unless you're down there really looking FOR something, I would not have found it.
N: Hm.
L: And, for me, I'd "find it," or encourage others to by touch?
N: Mm-hmm.
L: By the sensation of it, not necessarily by the sight of it.
N: Sure.
L: Yeah.
N: Yeah, I mean, that makes total sense.
L: I do know that I went to a conference, and that is when I first learned about the internal structures of a clitoris and how it is much more than just the tip.
N: I didn't learn about the internal structure of a clit until... you.
L: Sexplanations!
N: Yeah, that was AMAZING when you showed me the diagram.
L: Aw!
N: I was like, "Whoa!"
L: Yeah, right?
N: Yeah. So that was, that was-, I learned a lot on Sexplanations, it was great.
L: Me, too.
N: Yeah.
L: Yeah!
N: Because if you're not learning, -
L: Then why?
N: - well, what's the point.
L: Yeah. Agreed.
N: Yeah.
L: Okay! So, anything else we want to talk about before we close?
N: [thinking] Aah, ah, ah, ah...
L: What your favorite joke?
N: Oh, my favorite joke?
L: Mm-hmm.
N: Oh, I don't know, you go first.
L: You already know my favorite joke!
N: Is it still your favorite joke?
L: Well, it's what I'd say is my favorite joke.
N: I don't-, I don't like...jokes?
L: Okay, what do you like?
N: Well, like, I like a good comedian who spins a story?
L: Mm, yeah.
N: And so, like a joke, you know, is "set-up/payoff," right?
L: Yeah, yeah.
N: Like, "setup-setup-payoff." So I like-, if you want-, let's, okay - here's my current recommendation -
L: 'Kay.
N: - for people. It's a little dark...
(40:00) to (42:00)
N: It's a little dark...
L: [chuckles]
N: But! One of the greatest working comedians is Norm Macdonald. And he has a special on Netflix now. I think it's called Hitler's Dog, and Other Nonsense [actual title, Hitler's Dog, Gossip & Trickery], or something like that. And his observational humor is exactly what I love in the world. And so, yeah, -
L: Okay!
N: If you check it out, it's called Hitler's Dog "and something else", I can't remember what the "something else" is, but. He just goes-, he gets to this point about dogs where he's like, "You know, your dog thinks you're the greatest person in the world. Hitler had a dog.
L: Aww...
N: "That dog thought that he was the greatest person in the w-, he's like, 'Hey, when's Hitler comin' home?'"
L: Aw.
N: And it's just sort of putting-it-into-perspective that there are d- [chuckle] different perspectives on everything. But that particular routine is really great, and I remember first seeing Norm Macdonald. He was on A Night at the Improv, which was an old show on cable television - I think on A&E - back in the 80s that-, I was immediately taken with this guy. He just had this great dry wit, and yet sort of made you question expectations because he would take things in a different direction. And his talk about the dating game and sex is also really, really fun and funny.
L: Mm!
N: A little dark at times, a little dark. [chuckles]
L: I just watched Sarah Silverman's?
N: I keep hearing about it
L: Yeah! She has a whole bit on Roe v. Wade and-, yeah. It's good, it's good!
N: Well she just did a new thing about, "If it's good for the goose, it's good for-," is it, "Good for the goose, it's good for the gander?" Thing about male masturbation?
L: Oh!
N: In terms of regulating abortion? (?~41:42) [unintelligible]
L: Yes! Yes! So, she's saying that because sperm have olfactory senses - they have a sense of smell because they can detect where the egg is, and then direct themselves - that that is a form of life, and therefore, we should regulate masturbation and coitus interruptus -
(42:00) to (44:00)
L: - and coitus interruptus, et cetera - any, any ejaculate of sperm that does not go on should be punishable in the same ways as women are being regulated with their abortions. And she talks about putting this tiny little tube up the urethra of the penis and down into the testicles so that you have to look at your sperm, those living beings, and really think about what you're doing before you masturbate. It's wise!
N: You can't, you can't fault the logic, you know? [laughs]
L: Yeah?
N: So yeah, that's-, I don't really, like, I don't like jokes. But I love comedians.
L: Me, too.
N: I am like a, I'm a "comedian connoisseur." And Norm Macdonald, I thought he's retired from stand-up for a long time, because he went on Saturday Night Live, he did a few movies, and then he came back to it. And he just did this new special, and it just made my heart so happy. To see him there.
I will warn you it is dark, though. Like, he has some-he has some very light-hearted stuff, but he also has some dark stuff that is - [vocalizes] whoof. But it's also, I find, very, very amusing.
L: Well, next week we talk about sex shields with local comic...
N: John Howard!
L: John Howard!
N: Was once a student of mine.
L: And mine.
N: Yes.
[both laugh]
N: And is a really good comedian.
L: Yes, he's amazing.
N: Yeah. Lovely human being, too.
L: Now you know, John. This is what we think about you.
N: [laughs] Alright, Lindsey, take us out!
L: Yeah! Thank you, Nick, for sharing this time with me. We're not sitting on the red couches, but it's really sweet that you're here [outro music fades in] and sharing your sexy voice and wisdom and history of the channel with our listeners.
N: I had a great time, Sexplanations will always be something that I love, and for those of you wondering, Lindsey and I still hang out, pretty much weekly, almost, so.
L: Yeah!
N: So, it's lovely. I've made a life-long friend out of that. If, if everything else goes to shit -
L: No! We've got each other, Nick!
N: We've got each other! At the end of the day. So, yeah, I thank you for having me on.
L: You're very welcome -
(44:00) to (45:48)
L: You're very welcome, thanks for being here. The tagline can be "stay curious." But I also like "ancora imparo," which means "I'm still learning."
N: "Ancora imparo..."
L: Yeah. Thank you all for listening, we've got a few announcements for you: one, Sexplanations - the YouTube channel - just turned four years-old, please check out Sexplanations at youtube.com. Also! We have new merchandise on our DFTBA website if you want to see some of our cool new products, our t-shirts - black t-shirts with rainbow handwriting and red t-shirts with black handwriting - both say "Stay Curious."
N: That shirt looks awesome, by the way.
L: Thank you, I love it so much.
N: It looks really good, so.
L: Yes! Also, you can follow us on social media: we have Facebook Sexplanations, Tumblr tumblingdoe, and Twitter is ellteedee; you can go to Patreon.com/sexplanationspodcast to support the show and Adam & Eve dot com to get 50% off sex toys.
I want to thank Cinema Studios for all the sound editing of our show, Complexly for our production, and our co-host for this episode, Nicholas Jenkins. You can find him on social media and Sexplanations' YouTube channel, here's your homework:
Get a journal where you can follow along each week with new sexual health assignments and write down what, if anything, new you learned on this episode of Sexplanations Podcast.
We now have a weekly Sexplanations podcast, please check in next week! Ancor imparo!
N: Ancor imparo. Thank you, Lindsey.
L: Thanks, Nick.
[outro music ends]