Hank: Good morning, John.

John: Goooood morning, Hank. It's Friday.

Hank: You're wearing your special shirt for me.

John: I'm wearing the shirt that you like. I heard you liked it.

Hank: Other people like it too.

John: Yeah, I know, but you like it, that's the important thing.

Hank: Where did it come from? And do they have more?

John: I got it somewhere and I don't know.  Why, do you want me to wear more shirts like this?

Hank: I think that you should wear fewer shirts like this.

John: I like– this is my views shirt!

Hank: John.

John: Yeah.

Hank: There's a lot going on right now. Can I tell you about a few of the things  that are going on?

John: Yes.

Hank: Number one, we're collecting Nerdfighter art for the Project for Awesome.

John: Yes.

Hank: So check that out. Number two–

John: Link in the doobly-doo.

Hank: We're looking for folks to submit applications for the vlogbrothers sponsorship,  which we do. Half of our money goes to help out newer educational creators on various platforms.  As long as you're doing stuff on the Internet, doesn't matter where.

John: Yeah.

Hank: He went way down. Just a little guy!

John: I'm right where I belong.

Hank: Number three, you were in the New York Times.

John: I was.

Hank: And also, it said the word “Nerdfighters” in the subhead.

John: Yeah, it was cool to see the word Nerdfighters in the New York Times.

Hank: The title of the article was Can John Green Make You Care About Tuberculosis?  or something like that.

John: Yeah. Hopefully.

Hank: Hopefully, that is the goal!

John: Time to put my book on your face!

Hank: Number four.

John: Yeah.

Hank: You may be the second-most banned author in America.

John: It's me!

Hank: Did that news come out yet?

John: I don't know.

Hank: I interviewed a astronaut?!

John: I heard about that!

Hank: For Study Hall?!

John: Yeah.

Hank: I found out so much, including that I do not work very hard.

John: Well, not compared to astronauts, no.

Hank: There was one last thing that I hadn't mentioned.

John: Oh, great. We got an  election in six (3) days.

Hank: Yeah. And it just is, it's very hard…

John: To think about anything other than the election?

Hank: And it's also very hard to think about it. It's, both of those things are hard.

John: Yes.

Hank: Like, thinking about it is awful–

John: Yes.

Hank: –but very hard to not do anyway. And I also have this, like, a hard time  thinking that I don't matter. This is what Katherine says. She's like, well, I can't, like,  fix that.

I can't do anything  about that. So, like,  I know what I'm going to do, and I'm gonna focus on what I'm gonna do.

John: Yeah.

Hank: And I'm like, but maybe I can.

John: No, you can't. I want people to vote.

Hank: And I have been doing my best on that front.

John: So, Hank, let me submit that actually, while things are pretty stressful right now,  I'm not going to minimize that, what's actually happening is that you, in particular, are  experiencing intense anxiety for the first time in your life. Like pathological, clinical anxiety.

Hank: I think there might be a pathological component to it.

John: And you've never experienced that before, really.

Hank: Yeah.

John: And it's easy to forget this, but you had  cancer, like, recently. Like, you just got better from cancer. And on the other side of that,  it's really, really common  to have intense anxiety.

Hank: You know, elections are always very scary, especially the last couple. And so  it's hard for me to know. I do know that it's different for me now, generally. This is probably–  you're probably gonna tell me that I'm being silly here, but–

John: I don't think you're being silly. I think  this is a very consequential  presidential election.

Hank: There's also a piece of me that just feels like I can't keep up anymore. There's so much  going on. Like, things are changing very fast in America politically. There's, like, I feel like  I had a pretty good grasp  on how, like, the sort of  media landscape had changed, which has been very fast and very weird and very big and  important.

Adding generative AI on top of that makes me feel so behind all of the time.

John: But that's okay.

Hank: And also, I'm, like, older.

John: Yeah.

Hank: I feel like part of the thing that I do is try and understand media well enough to,  like, surf along with it,  commentate on it, and be,  like, somewhat of a respected voice, trying to have thought– like, useful thoughts about it.  I feel so lost now. I feel like, to some extent,  my job has been to at least, like, be able to read the ocean well enough to surf the wave.

John: You've always wanted  to surf the wave, which–

Hank: I've enjoyed surfing the waves.

John: Yeah. But not always…

Hank: You’ve surfed with me! I know for sure, sometimes the wave slams you into the reef.

John: You're addicted to wave riding.

Hank: Well, it's where I… it's like, where I  feel like I found my identity. Like, I have– so much of my identity is tied up in that.

John: Really?

Hank: I also feel that, like, as a person who helps to run Complexly and who's trying to  make Good Store continue to grow and cares about Nerdfighteria, I feel like being able  to sort of witness and understand the landscape is valuable to all of those things.

John: A little bit.

Hank: But I, and I feel like I'm losing it. I feel like it's falling through my fingers.  Like, it just, it's so complicated.

John: But Nerdfighteria isn't falling through your fingers. Nerdfighteria isn't, like,  becoming weaker because of generative AI. I just don't believe that. And,   like, maybe it will in five years or whatever, but right now I would  argue that Nerdfighteria is actually stronger and more interesting than it's ever been.

Hank: Yeah, I agree.

John: And that's what's cool about our work. It's not, like, analyzing ChatGPT. Ultimately,  I don't think that's going to impact Nerdfighteria that much, which is what I find most interesting  about our work.

Hank: Right. I hear that.

John: Independent of that, I have to tell you,  while we're having a psychotherapy session, I think you're doing a really good job.

Hank: I have a very hard time believing any of that.

John: I know. It just doesn't penetrate. It's like you have, like, armor on.

Hank: There is a piece of this that is, like, I wish that I could understand what– like,  I could see what's coming better. And I just feel like right now I don't. And,   like, maybe that's always been the case.   Like, I certainly didn't see the pandemic coming. So, like–

John: But it's uncomfortable to you to feel like something's coming and you don't know  what it is and you don't understand it, and it might crash you into the reef.

Hank: That's definitely, like, a six days out from an election, and a– media has been already  completely flipped over, and it's about to get  flipped over again by, you know, autonomous agents who can create on their own.

John: I'm going to tell you what I actually think, which is that some of this is about worrying  about generative AI, and some of this is about grappling for the first time with your mortality,  with the fact that you are  going to have a different,  that you're going to have a different level of  health anxiety in the  future. You're trying to view  through the lens of the universal, something that is intensely personal.

Hank: I mostly imagine myself through how I'm imagining other people are seeing me.

John: To see ourselves as others see us, as Joyce put it.

Hank: Yeah, that's mostly how I see myself.

John: Oh, interesting.

Hank: I feel like a lot of people see me, whether they're people who I actually know,  people who work for one of the companies, people who are on the Internet, on Twitter,  on TikTok, and I've gotten a little bit better at this, just realizing that I– I don't know  whether I'm a good person without that validation, like that feedback from–

John: Really?

Hank: Yeah.

John: Oh, interesting. That's not good. Because that is always fickle. And when that  goes, like, if you have a Tumblr 2013 incident, you're gonna be left pretty hollow.

Hank: Yeah.

John: Whereas if you can build it from within,  you can say, okay, my core relationships are okay. The people who know me and  love me the best still know me and love me the best. And I'm okay. And I'm gonna continue  to try to do good in the world, not so that it will be observed, but because it's fulfilling  and it allows me to make connections to people and there's value in the work itself.

Hank: I just have a harder time trusting myself than I, about that stuff than I do trusting  other people. Well, I'm on a journey of meaning.

John: Yeah.

Hank: I think I'm figuring it out more.

John: You know, what will happen, Hank? There will be something that emerges that  you and I find interesting the way, in 2005, when the social Internet was just emerging,  there was something we found interesting in community-based video. There will be  something that emerges that we find interesting that we use it for.

Hank: Yeah.

John: And it'll be different from what most people use it for. We'll find a lot  of fulfillment in that.

Hank: Right.

John: That's my guess.

Hank: I think you're probably right about that. It's gonna be really interesting. And that's  actually like a thing that  I found when I was sick,  that if I could be interested,  then I was doing okay.  Because that's not really even internal or like,  self-validating or about identity or status or anything. It's just like, ooh, curious.

John: If you can get into a rabbit hole. Yeah. I mean, tuberculosis has been the great gift  of my life for the last four years because it's given me something to think about at night  when otherwise I would be thinking about my worries and fears. I'm thinking about  what we can and can't do in the face of this terrible scourge.

Hank: Yeah.

John: And I had, on that topic, like, just because you mentioned the New York Times  video, and since we're here and we're being sincere and everything, I just have to say how  grateful I am to everybody who's, like, followed me on that journey and like, been like,  oh, yeah, you're right, it is– this does, this does matter!

John: There's lots of things to care about and I don't labor under the delusion that the thing  I care about is the most important one.

John: But I think it's important and I think ultimately, like, you know, each of us can only  care about so many important things, right? Like, there's always going to be problems that,  in paying attention to problem X, you're ignoring problem Y. And that's something that I really,  really struggle with. But I think ultimately we have to, you know, we have to pick  and we have to– you gave me the advice years ago, like, when you pick something, go deep.

Hank: Yeah.

John: Going deep–

Hank: You have to trust other people will go deep elsewhere.

John: Right.

Hank: Because otherwise you're always surface everywhere. And that just is the  saddest place, where you only know about the problems and you don't know why they exist–

John: Or how they get better.

Hank: –or how they're getting better.

John: Yeah, that's, like,  the despair place for me.  And I kind of can't afford  to stay there very long.

Hank: John, I'm surrounded by, speaking of, just lots of pieces of paper with your  name on them.

John: About 19,000 out there.

Hank: How many more do you need to do?

John: 81,000!

Hank: All right, you're on your way!

John: Yeah.

Hank: The last time I talked to you, you were,  like, at 12,000. And I was like, that sounds miserable.

John: I don't mind. I'm enjoying myself. I change Sharpie colors every 10,000, so–

Hank: And that really keeps it fresh.

John: So that people will know about when their copy was signed. And that does  keep it fresh. I can't tell you when I was, because I'm actually past 20,000. When I was  getting toward 20,000 and I knew I was gonna get to switch colors, I was like, let's go, baby!

Hank: John, I'll see you on Tuesday.

John: It's not normal to sneeze. That was fun. Did I come on too strong?

Hank: No, I don't think so. If you want to submit art for Project for Awesome or  maybe tell someone to apply for the vlogbrothers grant, both of those informations  are down there, as well as the link to John's article in the New York Times.

John: And a link to pre-order my new book!

Hank: Oh, yeah, I'll do that too.