Hank: Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

John: Or as I prefer to think of it, Dear John and Hank.

Hank: It's the podcast where me and my brother John talk about stuff and we answer your questions and we give you dubious advice and it's fun.

John: We also share all the news from Mars, which is a cold dead rock distant from the sun, and AFC Wimbledon, which is the white hot center of America's most popular sport.

Hank: And we usually start off this podcast with a poem. From my brother John.

John: Actually, we usually talk about how we're doing. How are you, Hank?

Hank: Oh, is that really... I don't know. I don't know how the podcast works. I'm good.

You know what I just did, John? Do you know what I just did, like, moments before this podcast began?

John: Did you get a new refrigerator?

Hank: No. Better than that.

John: Is your refrigerator fixed? That's what the world wants to know.

Hank: I ate pesto that was taken out of my fixed refrigerator. 

John: Congratulations on having fixed your refrigerator and being able to enjoy pesto. In personal news, today is day 29 of my 30-day elimination diet, which means that tomorrow. I can begin to reintroduce food groups to find out what I'm allergic to. that's causing my eosinophilic esophagitis. At the very least, along the way, I have learned that many of the things that I thought were required for living And Pesto... would have been, you know, pesto is essentially a consumer good.

Today's poem is actually a request, Hank. Luis, a longtime listener to Dear John and Hank requested this poem.

Hank: Well, not that long time.

John: Yeah, long time, no, he's listened to all 11 episodes. He requested this poem, The World is Too Much With Us by William Wordsworth. Great British romantic poet, William Wordsworth, and this is a great example of his poetry. The world is too much with us, late and soon, getting and spending, we lay waste our powers.

Little we see in nature that is ours. We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon. The sea that bears her bosom to the moon, the winds that will be howling at all hours and are up gathered now like sleeping flowers.

For this, for everything, we are out of tune. It moves us not. Great God, I'd rather be a pagan suckled in. a creed outworn.

So might I, standing on this pleasant lea, have glimpses that would make me less forlorn, have sight of Proteus rising from the sea, or hear old Triton blow his wreathed horn. William Wordsworth expressing concern about our relationship with nature and our obsession with consumer goods way back in like 1808.

Hank: I guess we have less to concern ourselves with if it's been a concern so long that it must not be a real concern, right?

John: I don't think that's how concerns work, but I do think that Wordsworth would be alarmed by the proliferation of inside culture. But sadly, I have to say that as much as I enjoy a good William Wordsworth poem, inside culture is my favorite kind of culture.

Hank: John, I have a question for you on the subject of poetry. Why do poems sound like poems? We don't talk like that in any other situation except when poem-ing. You know what I mean.

There's a way that you talk when you're reading a poem out loud. Not you, but a person. All people talk this way when poems are being read.

You sort of have to like. You have to emphasize. the syllables more and make the things sound the way that they should. It's kind of like performing a musical piece, except that there's a lot more room for improvisation.

John: Well, there's lots of room for improvisation with some music pieces, but I think you've hit upon precisely what it is, which is that poetry is rhythmic. Poetry is musical, you know, and so... uh not all not all poetry but lots of it is and so i try to reflect when i'm reading. um you know what i think the meter of the poem is and the most common meter in english is is iambic right where it's to do to do to do to do to do. that's iambic pentameter. the world is too much with us late and soon. That's the first line of that Wordsworth poem. And I don't know exactly why we use iambic pentameter in English poetry, except that it sounds good.

That something about it just fills our little heads with delight in the same way that I celebrate myself and sing myself and what I assume you shall assume for every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. So, I. feel like that's a very different poetry reading voice than you have when you're reading, you know, some old Wordsworth. No?

Hank: I disagree. It sounds the same to me. It sounds in the same way that it sounds different from normal human speech. It sounds the same.

John: Well, I think it's supposed to be elevated. I think it's supposed to be elevated human speech.

Hank: Yeah, and it has, like... Yeah, it has, and I think the question is, could you read that in a way that doesn't sound like reading a poem, or is it the poem itself that sounds like a poem?

John: I mean, I think a lot of, I think a lot of poetry, you know, does want to sound like heightened language. I think some doesn't, you know, like Frank O'Hare is having a coke with you. You know that poem?

Hank: Right. No, but I can feel it already.

John: You're just trying to get me to avoid reading you some Frank O'Hara, and I don't blame you. Or, you know, what about some light verse like, you know, Dorothy Parker? You know, like her poems, they still sound like... Right, right.

They still, you know, Dorothy Parker. poems still sound like poetry, but, you know, they're making fun of the way that poetry... 

Hank: I celebrate myself and I sing myself and what I assume you shall assume for every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.

John: Nope, you still sound like you're reading poetry to me. I don't think there's any way to avoid it because the language is precise and the language is chosen and it has a rhythm to it, right? I mean, you could sort of like tap out good poems and like. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I think that's a great thing. Like you can tap out any great sentence in literature, right? Like the first sentence of Great Gatsby in my young...

Hank: Is there maybe a better reading of Song of Myself of most poems? that isn't the way that we read them because we sort of get caught up in the way of reading poems. that sounds like poem reading?

John: No, because I think you have to acknowledge the heightenedness of the language and the specificity of the language.

Hank: You do, but you just said like the...

John: But I don't, I think... your underlying concern is maybe that people when they're reading poetry get too obsessed with line breaks and I think that's absolutely true. like you should try insofar as possible to read a poem I think anyway as if you were reading like you know as if you were reading aloud but you know and the line breaks are only there to give you like the briefest of an eye pause rather than the pause of like a comma or something. but I don't know. I'm not an expert in poetry, Hank. I am just a guy who read you a great Wordsworth poem that you should have enjoyed more than you did.

Hank: I did. No, here's the thing that's happening, I think, with Dear Hank and John and my being forced to listen to a poem every week, is that I'm starting to think more about poetry and about what it is about poetry. that sort of rubs me the wrong way. And now, and like there are lots of poems that I enjoy, like I, you know, more modern stuff is always more enjoyable to me, I think, because it's made for, you know... Like me and people who are alive right. now And so it requires a little less to like. there's a little bit lower of a barrier to entry Like I like Watsky's poetry for example but I I think that a lot of it is the pretension and the way that we perform poetry sort of does elevate it in a way where I'm just like, oh, I can't.

It's like people talking about the notes of raspberry and twists of lemon in a glass of wine when I'm like, you know what this tastes like? It's freaking grapes. It's grape-flavored alcohol.

Let's get over it.

John: Yeah, but I think you're maybe not giving enough credit to the validity of other people's passions and interests. So as a counterexample, I would say that a lot of people find the language of science or the language of mathematics to be very off-putting and to be very alienating. However, that language exists for the purpose of specificity and for the purpose of accuracy. And so if someone's trying to accurately map something from inside of I don't...

Just as I think that there's nothing inherently wrong with someone saying that certain wine tastes better than others, or trying to find. out what it is about that wine that tastes better than others, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this sort of heightened language of poetry. But I will try next week to find a poem that you will enjoy that is unpretentious and is read in a way that does not sound like poetry. Deal?

Hank: Deal. And I don't want you to think that I'm criticizing you, and I don't want poetry to think that I'm criticizing it. Just in the same way that when I'm talking about science, I like to do it in a way that will be interesting to the maximum number of people and lower those barriers to entry and make it less alienating. I think that there's ways to do that with poetry and that people who are into poetry should think about that.

John: Yeah, that's why I picked a very accessible Wordsworth poem instead of one of the more difficult ones.

Hank: Sorry about that. Well, let's do some questions, John. Does that sound good to you?

John: It sounds fine. I think increasingly that the way that I wanted you to feel about AFC Wimbledon is instead the way that you're starting to. feel about poetry, which is extremely unfortunate because I just wanted to read a poem to sort of like set the mood and now I have to read a poem and then defend it every week for 20 minutes. Our first question comes from Zara or possibly Zara who writes, Dear John and Hank, Can you find some way to prove that my life is not a big crazy experiment and that all the people I interact with are nothing but actors and everywhere around me is one big artificial movie set and that the real world is completely different to the one I think I am living in now period? Which is not really a question because it ends with a period but I appreciate the sentiment because for many years I believed exactly that.

When I was a child I believed that I was the only real person and that Hank was an alien and my parents were alien. And that the entire world that I knew existed only to sort of entertain and distract me because I was the only real human in this very complicated like alien play about what would happen to a human if. you did various things to them.

Hank: So I'm very simp- Do you think that that comes from a place of like just knowing a lot more about yourself? And like, you know, the experience of the self is a much richer experience than the experience of the other. And so is that where that, like, I think a lot of people sort of like have this thought at one point in their lives.

John: Right. Yeah. So there's a bit of a word for it, right? Solipsism.

The idea that the self is, you know, my self is the only thing or the only self that can be known to exist and that I should act out of that out of that belief. Like that's a that's a Big idea in Greek philosophy and then moving forward as well. It's very difficult to prove a negative or disprove a negative.

It's very difficult to prove that that's not true. However, I don't think that it is true and I think like one of the central Facts of being a person who is alive in a world with other people is that you have to have faith that other people are as. real as you are and that their experiences are as real as yours, that their grief is as real as yours, because otherwise you will end up acting in a way that puts you further from you know further from connection to people. so it is a leap of faith to imagine that other people are actually people and not some kind of like complicated experiment. but it's a leap of faith that makes a lot of sense. it is the far more likelier scenario.

Hank: for starters yes and i yes. certainly. i'll also say that it would be very very unusual For Hank and John Green to have done a 10 year long video blog project so that we could play this one very small part in the life of Zara.

John: Well, I mean, it would be unusual, except not from Zara's perspective, because from Zara's perspective, essentially the only thing that's ever verifiably happened are things that happened to Zara, right? So there is no. there is no world outside of Zara to Zara there. And that's kind of the challenge of being stuck inside this prison of consciousness that like my consciousness is the only one that. I'll ever. 

Hank: Can we prove it? No. But it is the case. Everybody's just their own person.

John: Yeah, as much as I can't prove it, I am still sure of it. That said, there are a bunch of philosophers who have ostensibly disproved solipsism. There are others who still argue for it, but not so many. But yeah, I think the right way to go about the world is to assume that other people are probably people who don't exist purely for your amusement and or edification.

Hank: All right, we have another question. This one is from Christy, who asks, Dear Hank and John, It's occurred to me that for the last few years I've always been between places. I live in places temporarily at university or my parents' house. I travel between them as well as around the country to see my friends, either due to a restless nature or reading too much Kerouac.

I want change and new things, feeling that I need to be moving. What is home? Is it a place?

Is it an environment? Do you reach a point in life when you find home, and how do you know when you found it? Ah, dang.

John: Yeah, that's a big question. I don't think everybody reaches a point in their lives when they find home, and I don't think everyone needs to. I have an artist friend, for instance, who's in her 40s and was born in Afghanistan and lived for most of her childhood in Afghanistan, but doesn't You know, have a permanent residence now and also doesn't particularly want to have one. She spends a lot of time in the U.

S. and a lot of time in Canada and some of the time in Afghanistan. And she isn't seeking permanence in the way that I would seek it. But that said, I remember that feeling of restlessness and having read a little bit too much Kerouac.

And it took me a long time before I felt at home. But now that I do. which is it's almost like something that you see in retrospect where you at least for me where I'm like oh I guess this is home because I've lived here a long time and I don't want to move anymore and once I found it I've been very reluctant to leave.

Hank: I yeah I also feel very at home in. the place where I am. but I also empathize with Christy in that sometimes You know, I do love to experience new things and I do love to do things. I also love to sit and stay at home and do the thing that I normally do and have a routine. And I think that what this boils down to is the idea of, I mean, maybe not, but I've been thinking about this a lot, the idea of normal, the idea of the regular and having, and there's sort of, you know, there's a push in my life and I think in a lot of people's lives to avoid that to be weird to try new things and especially when you're young I think that there's sort of a mutagenic force of youth in culture and that's an important part of that is like this desire to do things differently. But then when you settle into the normal and you find a normal that really works for you, and it might not be society's normal, hopefully it is, of course it isn't exactly society's normal, and it may be very different from society's normal.

But the normal that works. for you, and of course that normal can change from day to day and year to year, can be a really wonderful thing. 

John: Yeah, I kind of think that it's underrated. As you know, Hank, I believe that stability in general is underrated. Both political and social stability are underappreciated because we're always fomenting revolution. But yeah, I quite like normal, but there is a wonderful like friction to, you know, Life before you settle into a normal where lots of good and interesting things can happen.

But I also found that time of my life to be very stressful. Like there was this constant deep down gnawing fear. of not having a safety net of not knowing who my people were, for lack of a better term, like, you know, not knowing who I could count on day to day and, you know, not not having a great understanding some days of like, you know, what my bed was even going to look like. I've had the same bed for 12 years.

That to me is the definition of home. Home is that bed. That I've had for 12 years. that like has, you know, Sarah shaped and John. shaped density.

Hank: Yeah, my my definition of home is is comfortable normalcy as as much as my high school self and college self would hate that.

John: I was going to say somewhere 17 year old Hank is spitting on 36 year old Hank. Our next question is from Megan who writes, Dear John and Hank, I've been a Nerdfighter since 2007. Thank you for sticking with us, Megan. And I am beginning my first job as a middle school English teacher in two weeks.

I moved from upstate New York to southern Maryland for this opportunity and I'm very nervous. That's because you're not in the normal period yet. You're in that terrifying, difficult, but exciting pre-normal period.

I want to cultivate a love for reading and writing within my students while also performing to the high standard I've set for myself. How can I balance rigor with my joy in my job? That's a great question.

And in general, Hank, do we have any advice for a new middle school teacher? The only thing that I would really say, Megan, is that you are doing God's work. With God's people God's people of course being middle school students and. that I am Deeply and permanently in your debt as is the entire United States of America for the hard and good work that you are about to start doing with middle school students. and A special a special message to the middle school listeners out there be nice to your teachers.

Hank: They're trying hard and As you can see right there Hank Green, DFTBA, ...cultivate appreciation while also wanting to get good stuff out of your pupils. That's exactly the balance that you have to find, and I, having never been a middle school teacher, cannot help you with that. But the fact that you are asking it shows that you, you know, that you care. And that's probably the number one thing.

John: Yeah, I mean, my only other piece of advice to Megan would be to find good mentors, people who are better teaching mentors than John and Hank Green, who know absolutely nothing about teaching. So I'm sure at your school, there will be good mentors for you. And, you know, I'm sure once you're there, it'll feel normal. You probably are there by now, by the way, since we're answering your question belatedly, and probably everything. is going fantastically.

But yeah, find good mentors. That's always my advice to anybody starting out in any career.

Hank: And I also want to say people enjoy being mentors. A lot of times it feels like it's a one-sided thing and you're asking a great deal of a person, but if you find someone who you really respect and you like the way that they do their work, people will often enjoy sharing that because if they're doing a good job, it's because they love it and they're passionate about it and probably think a whole lot about it and want opportunities to talk

John: about it. Today's episode of Dear Hank and John is brought to you by Enthusiastic Mentors, EnthusiasticMentors.com, a website where you can find a mentor who wants to be a mentor, not some person who feels like they got tricked into it, a real proper enthusiastic mentor. EnthusiasticMentors.com, a website built in the future. Probably tomorrow, the day after, by Hank Green.

Hank: Today's episode of Dear Hank and John is brought to you by Reading Too Much Kerouac. Reading Too Much Kerouac, inspiring restlessness and change in generations of students and humans before they realize that. really there's a lot of pleasantness about just sitting around and watching Netflix with people you love.

John: Today's episode of Dear Hank and John is brought to you by poetry written after 1980. Poetry written after 1980. The only kind of poetry that Hank thinks is for him.

Hank: Today's episode of Dear Hank and John is brought to you by The Truman Show and The Matrix, which have reinforced this idea of solipsism, apparently is a word that is really old.

John: Did I just teach you a word?

Hank: Yes, I know, I did not know that word. I'd heard that word, I did not know what it meant. Wow. And everybody thinks that these ideas are so new, but they aren't.

Alright, we got another question. This question is from Blake, who writes, Dear Hank and John, I'm a transgender man, which in my case means my parents had one son and one daughter, but now two sons. This also means that my brother now has a brother.

My dad and brother, not my mom, have been very supportive of my transition and refer to me as their son and brother. My question is, How do I brother, son? I? feel like there is a set of skills or a way of being that I don't understand.

It isn't necessarily about gender roles. I'm not concerned with that. I won't be able to bond over similar interests or anything.

But being a brother and son still feels different. I am in my early 20s and my brother is in his late teens. What does being a brother mean to you, and is it in any way defined by gender or sex?

How do I operate as a brother and son, both in public and in private?

John: That's a big question. It sounds to me like you already are a brother and a son, Blake, so you're probably doing it right. Merely by doing it. I always encourage people to like... reach out to other people in the trans community and other people who've had similar experiences who you can find via social networks or or in real life in meetings. and but I think my experience as a brother is that you know being a being a brother or being a son means you know trying to be a good person in a relationship which is not that No.

I. don't think. I don't know, though. I've never been a daughter or a sister.

Hank: But I would say that there's probably as many ways to be brothers and sons as there are brothers and sons, and everybody does it differently, but the thing that they have in common is appreciation and love and respect for the rest of their family and compassion, you know? Like, that stuff. And so, in a lot of ways, I think that you have become a brother and son Just by being like just as everyone else has you got you. you do the thing, you know And if your family knows that you love you love them then you're doing the thing right.

John: Um, do you love me Hank? Come on All right, we got a question from Julie who writes dear John and Hank I was raised in a cult where we couldn't read outside books. I don't know what outside books are. I'll do it's but that sounds like the The vast majority of books.

I always loved to read but was only allowed a very limited amount of material. I left the church a couple of years ago and I constantly. hear people talking about all the books they were required to read in high school and I wish I could have had a high school reading list. Instead I was attempting to teach homeschool to my younger siblings, which was a disaster.

My question is, what books would be good to read in order to better fit into this new world I have discovered outside the confines of the one I was raised in? That is a fascinating question, Julie. The first short story I ever wrote, Hank, was about a kid.

Well, the first serious short story I wrote when I was in high school was about a kid who'd only been allowed to read the Bible and had been homeschooled. And all of the language that he had was the language of the King James Bible. That was the language that had been spoken to him.

And then he found himself in in a world where the King James Bible and quotes from the King James Bible and stories from the King James Bible were not the only quotes and stories and language that were used and it was quite overwhelming to him. It wasn't a bad idea. for a story. The execution was, of course, just epically terrible.

But yeah, I mean, I think it's tremendously challenging to try to live in a world where the sort of common cultural references are very different from the common cultural references of your own experience or of your own childhood.

Hank: Yeah, at the same time, I wouldn't necessarily be searching for the books that are going to help you Like associate with other people and understand their references, you might just be looking for the books that you're going to enjoy the most. So what I would do is just pick a bunch of classics of a bunch of genres and find the things that you might be into. And when I say classics, I mean from like today, you know, The Fault in Our Stars being an important classic that you should read.

John: I would say, you know, you want to start with a book like The Fault in Our Stars. that's kind of a contemporary classic. But you want to read more broadly, so you also. I also want to include, for instance, like a great boarding school novel like Looking for Alaska or a good sort. of like comic road trip novel like An Abundance of Katherine's. Really, between the Bible and the works of John Green, you should be pretty well set.

Yeah, I mean, I think that you can't try to read in a systematic way to like catch up or to be able to, you know, like Converse at cocktail parties because everybody's read different stuff and that's good. and it's good to be able to talk about books that other people haven't read and maybe get them excited about them. I think it's good to have, you know, different kinds of reading experiences. I will tell you the five books that I read in high school for school that mattered the most to me and then Hank will do the same thing.

Number one for me, Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison completely changed my life. Number two, Their Eyes Were Watching God. by Zora Neale Hurston, number three, Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut, number four, The Catcher in the Rye by J. D.

Salinger, and number five, Angels in America by Tony Kushner. Those are my five books that I read in high school English classes that had the biggest impact on. me. I feel bad about excluding, you know, Whitman and the entire American canon and Shakespeare and Wordsworth and Theodore Dreiser and whoever else, but those are the five that really mattered to me that I read in English class.

Hank: John, do you want to know a secret that I don't know if I've ever told anybody?

John: Yes.

Hank: I didn't read any books in my high school English classes.

John: Are you serious? None?

Hank: I don't think I finished any book. Wow.

John: Really?

Hank: Yeah.

John: What about like Romeo and Juliet or something that's pretty pretty short?

Hank: That's not a book and no. 

John: I mean they printed in book form. Uh you didn't. well did you not have good high school English text like did you not get? I did have.

Hank: I. I had good high school English teachers and I enjoyed. I enjoyed exercises in high school English. I have very mild dyslexia and I read very slowly and and when what would happen is like I would be assigned you know the three chapters for that night I'd read the three chapters and then the next night I have to read another one and I just couldn't keep up and. by the time I was behind.

I was just behind and reading the Cliffs Notes. So I didn't, and I didn't enjoy any of the books because I was reading them to try and churn through them as fast as possible. I did not enjoy a book until I read Jurassic Park.

John: Well, that's an enjoyable book, no question about it. I remember reading Jurassic Park in high school and really enjoying it.

Hank: Yeah, so I enjoyed Jurassic Park. That was the first book that I read all the way through. And the first adult book. And it did inspire me to then go out and read longer books. that took me, you know, I probably in the beginning of this process would spend a month or two reading one book.

And I just couldn't go faster than that. So that's what I did. And in class it was like, we're reading these 10 books this semester.

I just was never going to be able to do that.

John: What else did you read in high school? That was book length that that you liked or that you finished. Can you remember anything?

Hank: I read The Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley. Robinson. And and that that was huge for me. And I honestly, until college, don't think I may not have read.

I must have read some other books, but I don't. I don't know, man. It took me a long time to become a reader.

And now I read just like you know. I still read slowly but I read a lot.

John: yeah you're a better reader than I am now.

Hank: um well yeah you have you have. uh every everyone who has children will sometimes look at me and like touch me softly on the arm and say what's it like to just read. 

John: It is true that you don't have as much time to read, but I could choose to read a lot more than I do because, you know, at the end of the day after the kids go to sleep, I often watch television instead of reading. So I could definitely make better choices or different choices. I don't know if it's actually better. There's some pretty good TV shows on these days, but that's really interesting.

That explains...

Hank: Oh, a book that was huge for me in that change that I read in high school. was T. H. White's book about. What is it?

What's it called?

John: The Once and Future King. Yes, that one. I never read it, actually, but I bought a copy once and cut a gigantic hole in it and put a ring inside of it for Sarah's birthday.

Hank: Oh, I remember you doing that. And actually, I remember looking at that hole in that book and feeling like you had burnt an American flag, basically.

John: Whatever. You buy a book, it belongs to you. You can do whatever you want with it. That's really interesting.

It also explains your continuing fascination with Mars. It was these three Mars books that had such a huge impact on your reading life. It almost makes me sympathetic to your position that Mars is of anything other than passing interest.

Hank: Well, I may also point out that I'm not the only person who is fascinated with Mars, and in fact I would like to see An analysis of movies about outer space versus movies about football, the game played with the foot, not football, the game played with the hands. And see which there are more movies about. I bet there's more movies about space, John.

John: Well, I'm sure that there are more movies about outer space because it's inherently far more dramatic. Special effects budgets are higher. People like to go to the theater to see stuff blow up. Almost never.

Do things blow up in soccer matches? Only when something goes very wrong with a flare in the stands.

Hank: All right, we've got another question. This one is from Aaron who asks, Dear Hank and John, if you could add any one mandatory course to the high school curriculum in the United States, what subject would you focus on? I love this question.

John: Great question. Hank, let's answer together. Ready? Three, two, one, computer programming.

Hank: Mars. 

John: I do feel like not enough American high school students are educated in the field of fourth tier English soccer, which is one of the reasons that AFC Wimbledon doesn't have as large a following here as I would like. But I think that Mars and AFC Wimbledon should be off the list for future courses. I really think computer programming. I think understanding how basic.

The basics of how computers work and how we get them to do stuff with and for us is extremely important. to contemporary life. So that would be my vote. Hank?

Hank: I like that a lot. I feel strongly in... In that regard as well I think that that you know. it is offered in a lot of schools and uh and I hope that lots of students are taking computer programming even if you're not going to become a programmer it's just a really important thing to know. I have taken computer programming courses and I am not a programmer but it is very helpful to me in my life to know what is possible and to be able to communicate with programmers. uh so that's uh great uh I I you know just to go in a different direction.

I feel like there needs to be a course on How to live, like how taxes work, and personal finance, and things like that. I would really like for that to exist, and then I think that there should be a course on critical thinking that is just called BS Detection 101. And I don't know, I feel like that's just something that isn't.

You know, it seems like it should be something that is in all of the courses, but somehow we've lost it.

John: Yeah, I would say that critical thinking needs to be integrated into existing courses rather than made into its own course. But I don't disagree with you about what used to be called home economics or home ec being really, really relevant to people's lives, like knowing how to, you know, like not Overdraw your checking account is very important and I did not really know how to do it until I was about 28.

Hank: Yeah, right and like and that the consequences of it. and like just and understanding the difference. like what it really means when you have a monthly bill and and like and what it like. and and all of the different ways that Being that not having money costs money and how to avoid them. Yeah, because I just I think that there is a. there's a huge. There's a whole industry in America that's based on people not understanding how money works. And it's a great industry for making poor people poor and rich people rich.

And it makes me very, very angry. And I don't know why it's not something that is taught. And also I would like. that course to teach how to vote.

John: Yeah, how to vote.

Hank: Not which person to vote for.

John: But just how to vote.

Hank: Like how to engage with the American political system.

John: Yeah.

Hank: And that no matter how much money you have, you have the exact same number of votes as the richest person in the world.

John: Our last question for today, Hank, it comes from Eum who writes, Dear John and Hank, I just realized that Eum's name is not Eum because his username is IAmDecadent. I don't think that person's name is EumDecadent. I think that person's name is something that is not. Ian writes, Dear John and Hank, Do you like cooking?

Is there a go-to meal you have when you want to be fancy? What if you're tired but don't want delivery? Thanks and happy eating!

First off, when I'm- There is no such thing as me being tired and not wanting delivery. Even when I'm not tired, I want delivery.

Hank: Yeah, now that you've mentioned it, I want delivery right now.

John: Yeah, come to think of it, why isn't there a pizza here? Oh right, because I can't eat wheat or soy or dairy. The go-to. meal for me when I want to be fairly fancy is a nice piece of fish, very simply grilled, with cauliflower, some nice kind of You know, baked cauliflower and very lightly boiled asparagus. That's the perfect meal for me.

But it takes a lot of work and I just as soon have pizza delivered.

Hank: I think for us, it's either like curry, like Massaman. curry is sort of like the fancy if we want to spend some time. And then if if like I just want to eat and I don't and I like Honestly, if I don't want delivery, it's because I don't want to wait 30 minutes. And so it's something like a tortilla with cold cuts and cheese microwaved.

John: That's my- Oh god, that sounds terrible.

Hank: That's like, I need food, food. Or just a cold cut wrapped around a piece of cheese. Oh god. Or two bananas.

John: Yeah, two bananas sounds more reasonable to me. I have to say that I've had to plan my meals very carefully over the last 30 days because I can't eat any normal foods. And that's been really helpful to me to know Every morning what I'm going to. eat that day to know what breakfast lunch and dinner are going to look like and to know when I'm going to prepare them. because I don't find myself in that situation where I'm super hungry and you know have no idea what to eat and then have to like ransack the pantry in search of something to provide me with calories because every morning I'm like oh this morning I will have spinach. and then later today I will have chicken and asparagus and then in the evening I'm going to have you know salmon stir-fry or whatever. oh god it's been a long month. um hey can we move on to the news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon?

Hank: let's do that.

John: do you want to know the news? do you want to? do you want to? do you want to know the news? do you want to know the AFC Wimbledon news?

Hank: okay tell me the AFC. do you want to?

John: do you want to know? do you want to know? do you want to? we want a home game.

Hank: we did it good. Oh, that's very nice.

John: We beat Exeter City at home. Fans got to see. a victory from the John Green stand, Hank. Thousands of people sat in the John Green stand and watched an actual AFC Wimbledon victory beating Exeter City 2-1. And it was a beautiful game.

The winning goal was scored by our 21-year-old striker Aziz, the new striker. He was with the team last season, scored seven goals this year in an expanded role, looking very prominent. very exciting and and and Hank. currently five games into the season. AFC Wimbledon are 12th in league two. they are in 12th place. there are 24 teams in league two. the bottom two get relegated and then the top few get promoted up to league one. 12th is is Dead Center Midtable.

Very comfortable. Not a bad place to be right now. And hopefully if we can put a string of results together, we'll be up nearer those promotion places and we can dream of third tier English football.

But it's too soon for that. It's just one home victory. But it was a good weekend.

Hank: That is amazing news. I'm so happy for you. 

John: Hank, name another significant institution owned equal shares by every single one of its fans. You can't. Not. even Nerdfighteria is owned by its fans.

Hank: No, I actually looked into doing that once. It turns out to be quite complicated.

John: I know, but AFC Wimbledon has overcome those regulatory hurdles because they actually care about their community, unlike some people. What's new in Mars?

Hank: Alright, this week on Mars, well, really on Earth, a slab of ice, 130 feet thick. That has persisted for tens of millions of years was located on the surface of Mars. It's the size of like Texas and California put together. It's a very big Thanks for watching!

But it looks like that lots has persisted all around the planet, and it's sort of leading us to understand that Mars has had a much more variable and peculiar climatic history than we expected. And also, it's pretty cool that there is so much dang water on this planet.

John: So there's a lot of water on Mars right now. Yeah!

Hank: Tons!

John: And... Mars has had a more variable climate than we previously believed.

Hank: Yeah.

John: Were there dinosaurs on Mars?

Hank: No.

John: But that would have been high school Hank Green's ultimate book. It's Jurassic Park plus the Mars trilogy.

Hank: No, you know what would be. that is if we were like, you know, it would be we could make dinosaurs, but we've seen the Jurassic Park movies. So we're not going to put them on Earth.

John: We know it would be a bad idea to put them on Earth, but We're gonna have Jurassic Mars!

Hank: Jurassic Mars!

John: Oh my god! Hank, we have a bonafide hit on our hands. Somebody call Steven Spielberg.

Hank: Jurassic Mars!

John: We had Jurassic Park. We had Jurassic World. The logical next step? Jurassic Solar System, Jurassic Mars.

Hank: All right, John, you're the writer, so I expect to read a short story called Jurassic Mars within the next six months.

John: I'm pretty sure that that is a copyrighted idea, and they seem to protect that copyright pretty aggressively.

Hank: There's no, there's nothing copyrighted about the word Jurassic.

John: I think there's something copyrighted about the idea of bringing dinosaurs back from the dead.

Hank: Nah. You don't think so? Nah.

John: No way! Alright, then it's settled. Forget writing a short story. I'm a movie producer now, Hank.

I have a movie producing deal with Fox 2000. I'm going to make the movie Jurassic Mars. Do you think Spielberg will mind?

Hank: No, no. Especially. if it's really, really surrealist and crazy, just stupid.

John: Did you see Jurassic World?

Hank: No. Maybe it should be animated and it should be for kids. 

John: Jurassic Mars for kids. I mean, it's a great idea for a TV show. Dinosaurs on Mars is a fantastic idea. for any format. I cannot think of a format where dinosaurs on Mars wouldn't work.

See, Hank, when you come up with, when you tell me the news from Mars, I try to use that to make your relationship with Mars even deeper and better. And when I tell you the news from AFC Wimbledon, you dismiss it. And that is the fundamental difference between us.

Hank: I did everything I could to be supportive this time.

John: I am a generous, giving, thoughtful, engaged sibling who is truly a collaborator And you are an underminer. You are trying to undermine my passion and the world's greatest institution owned by its supporters.

Hank: I did everything I could. I'll try to be better in the future.

John: Hank, what did we learn today other than Jurassic Mars?

Hank: Do you think that we could get Kristen Bell to play Veronica Mars, the character, and solve a mystery involving? dinosaurs on Mars?

John: You know, there's always one step too far and you took it. Okay, we need to keep thinking we've only had this. we've only had this dinosaur on Mars idea for like five minutes. Okay, let's not expect it to completely cohere yet. Okay, but it's coming together.

All right, I can feel it. I can feel the creative juices working as soon as we go off the air of the podcast. I think you and I need to set up some meetings with Hollywood producers and it's just all dinosaurs on Mars all the time.

Hank: All right Until then, John, what did we learn this time?

John: Well, we learned that William Wordsworth is a good poet, whether Hank likes him or not.

Hank: We learned that we don't know whether everyone else exists, but they probably do.

John: We learned that being a good brother and a good son is mostly a matter of loving and being loved even though Hank wouldn't say that he loves me.

Hank: Thank you for spending some time with us. I'm Hank. That other guy is John. He's my brother.

This podcast is called Dear Hank and John and you can send us. questions at dearhankandjohn.com. This podcast is also something that is edited by Nicholas Jenkins. The theme music is from Gunnarolla and as they say in our hometown.

John: Don't forget to be awesome. One other thing, Hank, you just said that you could send us questions via dearhankandjohn.com, which, oh, you can! You've created a website!

Hank: Oh, well, it doesn't actually...

John: Did I? Well, there's a dearhankandjohn.tumblr.com, it looks, uh, oh, nope, nope, that's a different thing. Yep, you can't submit questions via dearhankandjohn.com, you have to go to hankandjohn.gmail.com.

Hank: Confirmed. What is this? There's a dearhankandjohn.com?

John: Yeah, it's a Tumblr where people write us really nice letters. It's really sweet.

Hank: Oh yeah, that existed before this podcast did.

John: It did. Yes, we stole the idea from them.

Hank: Well, we stole the name from them. Different idea, same name. Yeah. Sorry about that, dear.

John: Probably in retrospect, maybe should have called the podcast Dear John and Hank. I think dearjohnandhank.com is available. In fact, I'm going to register it now. Thanks for listening.

Bye.