John: Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Dear Hank and John.

Sarah: Or as I like to call it, Dear John and Sarah.

John: It's a comedy podcast about death where my wife Sarah and I answer your questions, give you dubious advice, and bring you all the week's news from both. Mars. Hank is busy this week. I think he's working on the line edits for his new novel An Absolutely Remarkable Thing which comes out in September and is available for pre-order now. and it's so good and I'm not just saying that because he is my brother. it really is a wonderful book. it's also Sarah in the top 20 on Amazon right now.

I'm so thrilled for Hank.

Sarah: it is incredible and super exciting.

John: yeah so we're very happy for Hank. do go pre-order An Absolutely Remarkable Thing. you You can do it at your local independent bookstore or also elsewhere. Sarah, do you have a short poem for us today?

Sarah: Should we do one that somebody recommended or should we do one that I happen to have around?

John: Let's do one that you just happen to have.

Sarah: Okay, okay. This week's poem comes from Mari. Evans and it goes like this. I, who would encompass millions, am adrift on this, my single bed.

John: Oh, that's so good! Oh, we should have you do all of the short poems. That was excellent. Wow.

Who among us has not felt that?

Sarah: I know. It's called college.

John: For me it was called twenties. Alright, let's get to some questions from our listeners, Sarah. This first question comes from Ebony who writes, Dear John and Hank, Recently I was shown the TED talk, How to Tie Your Shoes. Initially skeptical, I was certain that I had nothing to fear.

Of course, I know how to tie my shoes, but imagine my complete horror when I discovered that I had, in fact, been tying my shoelaces wrong for my whole life. I am now completely distraught, I do not know how to cope with this revelation, and I am now immensely fearful of other such life-changing discoveries. How do I cope with the terrifying realization that at any moment my life could completely change?

Any dubious advice would be much appreciated, no longer in perfect harmony, Ebony.". 

Sarah: False sense that you can master your life and that there are right. ways and wrong ways to do things.

John: Or that there are only right ways and wrong ways to do things. Like that there is a one right way to approach the world. Sometimes Ted's editorial voice does veer a little too far into that world view.

Sarah: Well, it could seem like there's this secret club of people and Ted presenters are the only ones who belong to this club and they know how to do life.

John: They're the masters of the universe. The truth is Ebony I watched this TED Talk, Sarah and I watched it together, and I'm completely unconvinced that this person's way of tying shoes is better than the standard way of tying shoes. I am, however, convinced that Sarah's way of tying shoes is better than either my way or the TED Talk guy way.

Sarah: Well, I had my cousin Mark teach me how to tie my shoes his way when I was like an adult. Yeah. And it's a good way. You actually go to loop. 

John: is a the tassels or whatever and you get you get your free shoelaces rather than getting that like complicated knot. yes my way of tying shoes which i. consider to be the standard way is just the way that everybody's familiar with the ted talk guy way is to do a somewhat underhanded knot and then the knot is apparently slightly stronger. but here's the thing ebony. Your real question is how do I cope with the terrifying realization that at any moment my life could completely change and Like? that is a big question and a good one And I think the way that most of us cope with it is by ignoring it as much as possible.

Sarah: Well, yeah, and this particular problem was not really a problem for you before. Right. So, yes, it's hard to deal with change, but, you know, if it's working for you.

John: Yes! Why do we introduce problems into our lives unnecessarily? Why can't we just say, you know what, life isn't about maximizing efficiency? As you know, Sarah, I drive 45 seconds when I drive the kids to school.

I take away that is 45 seconds longer and Chris Waters always makes fun of me for this. He says, why do you turn onto that street? If you turn two streets earlier, you would save 45 seconds and you. do this 200 times a year and it costs you more than an hour.

And the answer is I like that hour. I like the hour that I spend unnecessarily taking the kids to school because it's pleasant for me. The kids are usually in a relatively good mood. they usually are we're talking about something or listening to music. and yes it is not the most efficient or effective way to get the kids to school but it is the way that I like.

Sarah: that's true although the reason why you don't turn on the street where you should turn is because you don't have the map in your head so you don't see your inefficiency. no if you had the map in your head it might bother you more.

John: It's true that I have absolutely no map in my head. When we moved, when I was a kid, we moved houses when I was about 14 years old. And for the rest of the time that I lived in Orlando, Florida, before I drove anywhere, I drove to my old house because I had no idea how to get anywhere except from my old house.

Sarah: It's like when. I got my driver's license and I got in the car for the first time and my mom was with me and I turned to her and I go, how do we get to the store? As she goes, are you kidding me? You've been a passenger for how long?

And I was like, well, I didn't have to pay attention.

John: Right.

Sarah: I was completely unprepared, but it's no longer a problem thanks to smartphones.

John: It's true. Neither Sarah nor I has a particularly good sense of direction. But the long and short of it is, Ebony, that just keep tying your shoes or don't, whatever. This next question comes from Ben.

Oh, wait, it's your turn. Yes.

Sarah: Ask a question. It's my turn. Okay, the next question comes from Ireland. Dear Hank and John, I have been going to a high school art class weekly for the last few months, but I feel like I haven't gotten to know any of my other classmates.

Everyone in the class Well Sarah, you...

John: I've been to a lot of art classes. You did art classes in high school.

Sarah: I did.

John: How do you make art class friends?

Sarah: Well, you don't chat. people up while they're making art, I will say. It's generally frowned upon to talk to other people during art classes unless you're doing a sort of collaborative project. Mostly, you kind of sit there and you've got to think of your ideas and work on it yourself. And the conversation happens kind of outside the classroom or somewhere else.

I wouldn't try to make art jokes, although do you have any art jokes, John?

John: I don't have any off the top of my head, no. I never took an art class, which will surprise you given my mastery of visual expression.

Sarah: Well, you don't have to be masterful in visual expression to take an art class. Common misconception. You have to be present, and you have to try, and you have to be unafraid to fail.

John: Oh, it's the third one. I was ready for the first two. I really dislike failing.

Sarah: So I made friends in art classes. walking to class together, walking after class, milling about after class or you know. if you really want to try and be outgoing you can you know put out an ask to see if anybody wants to go see an. art show together locally, watch an art related movie, maybe watch an episode of The Art Assignment available through PBS Digital right now, maybe even do that, but I think you gotta try to be social outside of class.

John: What about? This is something I've tried over the years in writing classes and I found it to be very effective. What about complimenting the work of people you want to date? 

Sarah: I mean, complimenting other people works, but you have to like have a sincere and interesting compliment. That's good. I like that. Not that convincing, but if you have like a good a critique that's mostly complementary.

John: It could work. I remember when we first started dating. In general, I've been pretty good over the years at finding specific compliments for people's work whose work I admired. I actually think that's been. one of the secrets to my success is complimenting people in a way that they like, that they're happy to have heard that compliment.

I remember looking at your artwork on your website and thinking it was really good and interesting and feeling visually drawn to it and feeling almost like I kind of wanted to live. inside of those paintings or look at them from different angles and stuff and having absolutely no vocabulary for trying to express to you what I thought was cool about your work.

Sarah: That's why you watch the art assignment on PBS Digital Studios. I give you tips and pointers for ways to talk about artwork. You can look up the video, How to Critique. OK, that's enough of a plug for my web series.

John: That's good. That's good. Let's go back to preordering Hank's book.

Sarah: Yes. 

John: But I think in general though I think it is really fun to connect to people through their work and connect to people through the stuff that they make. We've always done that, the two of us, but also with a lot of our friends. A lot of our closest friends are people who the stuff that they make, whether it's the kids they parent or the art they make or other work they do. We find points of connection there and that's always been important for us.

Sarah: And talking about art is a fantastic way to not talk about yourself. It's like another non-you-or-them subject.

John: Right. Alright, this next question comes from Ben. and I wanted to ask it because it's something I have a little bit of experience with. Ben writes, Dear John and Hank, I work in an emergency room on the south side of Chicago, and because of this I've witnessed some of the worst moments in people's lives. I feel I cope with this fairly well, all things considered.

My problem is this, I feel like I'm lying to my friends and family more and more. Every time I get a simple question like, how was work, how was your day, I feel the need to protect them from what I see and do. No one wants to hear about what I actually had to do in the course of a day, and in fact it might gross them out, so I answer with Fine or okay or something else equally vague.

How do I remain genuine and authentic to my friends and family without grossing them out and exposing them to the worst sides of humanity? Ben Jammin' Benjamin. It's a good name specific sign off to a very serious question.

Sarah: Nice to lighten it up there at the end.

John: Yeah, maybe that's the key. Maybe just every. time somebody says how you doing you just say Ben Jammin'. 

Sarah: Well, John, you actually have some direct experience here, but maybe I'll go first with my more dubious advice, which is that I think that it's risky to lie to them or to gloss over it. If you really want to have genuine and deep relationships with the people in your life, then you kind of do have to rain on the parade and tell them about what's going on. They probably will be interested, although it's hard to hear and it does drag down a conversation. you know maybe I'd pepper in some of the possibly funnier or just gross and not horribly depressing things that happen. or you could create like a rating system for your day for the people in your life like somebody you see every day could be like okay ten is super bad one was great. everybody came into the ER healthy today and then you could say well it was a nine it was it was bad but let's move on kind of thing so you can be honest but not really depressing.

John: I think it's all contextual. I think there are. times when somebody you know when you're buying an ice cream cone and somebody says how was your day? that's not a moment for you to be like. well listen it was brutal right. and there are times even in conversations with people we're close to and people we love when we want to kind of gloss over things and I think that's okay. I don't think that's lying even if you said that was a little rough but I'm really happy to be here like that isn't lying it's just. I don't really feel the need to get into it right now. and when I worked at the children's hospital that's what I did a lot and it was only occasionally when someone would say to me has it been difficult or have? or? or you I know you just got back from an on-call. one of the closest people in my life might say I know you just got back from being on call for 24 or 40 hours or whatever it was.

Did anything difficult happen? Is there anything you want to talk about? And then it becomes a moment where you can have those conversations Benjamin. in talking about this there's one thing I want to say which is that unlike me you are not presumably a 21 year old deeply narcissistic kid with a lot of emotional baggage.

You're great. But I often use the incredible difficulties that I was going through at that time in my life and the real trauma that I was Close to and that I witnessed as a way of taking over conversations or acting like my problems are more important than other people's problems and at times feeling like my problems were more important than other people's problems. and That's just not true. and so I think that's also important to remember. you have to make space for other people's problems and If you feel if you're minimizing other people's problems because they don't feel serious to you. I think that you're forgetting one of the core things about being a person which is that We don't live our lives only in the context of we're suffering.

We also live our lives in the context of the previous things that have happened to us. Working at a hospital is hard and I really admire you and it was the. hardest six months of my life.

Sarah: Yes, we appreciate what you do, Benjamin.

John: Yeah, thank you.

Sarah: Okay, this next question comes from someone we don't quite know how to pronounce their name. Ants?

John: Ants? I think it's ants.

Sarah: Dear Hank and John, what's the right thing to say when someone's complimenting your furniture? Like, oh, I really like that sofa. Should the answer be thanks? I always feel weird saying that, as I didn't make the sofa or anything.

But I did choose it from many other nice sofas. This has recently been on my mind a lot as I moved into a new apartment with my boyfriend a few weeks ago. With greetings from Latvia, Anse.

John: Yeah, now that I realize that Anse is from Latvia, it's probably not ants. Is there a more American vowel sound than A? 

Sarah: So anyway, I think that this brings me to that response. when you say, oh, I'm sorry, if someone says they're sick and they say, oh, it's not your fault. You know, that's not what they're saying. They're just saying that they're sorry that you are sick and it must be a terrible scenario.

John: They are aware that it's not. their fault.

Sarah: And just like this, when they're saying I really like that sofa, they don't think you made it. That is correct. Unless you happen to be an upholsterer. 

John: We have not accounted for this possibility, the Latvian upholsterer possibility. You might have mentioned that, however. I feel like that would have been in the question.

Sarah: Yes, you say thanks, but as I was reading this, I came up with a thought, which is that if you don't like that question, you need some sort of a large and obvious curiosity in your new apartment that's going to suck in all the interest and prevent anyone from making so.

John: No one will ever say a word about your sofa when they look and see your life-size cutout of Olympic swimmer Mark Spitz. That's the best possible one in Latvia too, because I assume that the vast majority of people will be like, and who is that?

Sarah: Who is that hairy man in a speedo? But you know, I don't know what your Mark Spitz cutout is, but I think you and your boyfriend need to find something because maybe they're complimenting your sofa because your apartment's a little bare.

John: And they don't know what else to compliment.

Sarah: Yes, make some art together. Maybe I know if you really, here's another great distraction, get a big roll of paper, you and your boyfriend get naked, paint yourselves in a non-toxic paint, Press yourselves to the paper, let it dry, hang it on the wall. No one will compliment your sofa again. 

John: Do we have a thing in our house that is the thing that people compliment and makes them not notice everything else? The answer is that we do, but I genuinely don't know if you're going to guess it.

Sarah: How about our antique TV that doesn't work?

John: The antique TV that doesn't work. got a lot of play in our old house. Yes. What gets a lot of play in our new house, Sarah? We got a dang secret room!

You always forget about the dang secret room!

Sarah: But the problem about the secret room is that you have to tell people about it, because it's secret.

John: Right, but when you tell people about the secret room and you let them like... you know move the book. that results in the secret room opening up everyone. everyone gets the. childlike wonder in their eyes.

Sarah: it's true it it brings a lot of joy but I think we can no longer call it secret John because it's just that room that opens via bookcase with a book that you pull because you tell everyone who comes to our house FedEx, man. Hey, thanks for your time.

John: Wanna come downstairs and see the secret room? And they're always like, yeah, I do. The other thing that gets a lot of attention in our house, and rightfully so, is our incredible dog toilet. Okay, with absolutely no further explanation, we're going to move on to another question.

This one from Ryan. A real Ryan, Sarah.

Sarah: Wow.

John: You probably don't know why that's such a big deal.

Sarah: This must be a Dear Hank and John joke. I must clarify before we get any further that I have listened to this podcast before.

John: You have.

Sarah: But I don't know the Ryan joke. Are jokes funnier when you have to explain them?

John: This joke certainly won't be because I also don't even really remember the Ryan joke, but anyway, Ryans are a thing. So a real Ryan, we have a lot of people who claim. to be Ryans who write in, but this is a proper Ryan. Although, who knows for sure. They didn't send in a driver's license, which is what we usually look for when trying to confirm Ryan-ness.

Ryan writes, Dear John and Hank, I'm a 24 year old Ryan. Now that is the exact kind of thing a Ryan would say. In our experience, Ryans frequently identify themselves as Ryans.

So, okay. I'm a 24 year old Ryan. I'm also terribly dyslexic.

I'm not illiterate, but close. I try to avoid reading But pursuing a master's in chemistry makes that difficult. I've gotten this far with the use of text-to-speech software that is built into my MacBook.

I'm trying to read more, consuming more stories, comics, graphic novels, audiobooks, etc.

Sarah: I have a problem though.

John: There is a weird, sad, hollow feeling that ruins me when a story I enjoy ends. Is this normal? How do you process it? How do people love to read if it hurts like this?

People lived and breathed inside my head and now their story is over. I will hear no more from them. In time will I just become callous to this feeling?

Sad. and hollow, Ryan.".

Sarah: I love this question. This is just this captures the beauty of reading entirely and that sadness is just. you know what makes it a bittersweet experience. But I think Ryan's onto something with the graphic novels um or or maybe like something that's released in serial format, something that comes out again and again so you don't have to give up on your characters.

John: Something that lasts forever, The Baby-Sitters Club is the example from my childhood. I loved reading The Baby-Sitters Club books because they would give me a little bit of that, I often hear people describe it as a book hangover, a little bit of that sad empty feeling that you get at the end of a book, but it wouldn't last for long because there was always Baby-Sitters Club number 32 just published and so there was excitement around that. That said, I have come to really love that feeling that a great book leaves me with. It's a weird feeling and it is melancholic, but it isn't for me totally unpleasant.

I really love being so transported and caring so much about a fictional world that when I am on the other side of that reading experience. I yearn for it and I miss it and I miss those people and I feel like I care about those people. I can't get that feeling anywhere else and it's not a purely enjoyable feeling but it is a really kind of deep feeling for me.

Sarah: Yeah, so I think the answer is that you won't become callous to the feeling. Maybe you'll learn to enjoy the feeling or be able to sort of enjoy marinating in the leftovers of the reading experience. I just finished Zadie Smith's Swing Time and I found it disturbing in a lot of ways. Very good.

But I don't yet want to dive back into another novel just yet. So usually after a novel or like a story that I'm really into, maybe I'll read some articles, some shorter things, some New Yorker that's Stacked up because you can't ever read them all. Or maybe I'll look at a magazine or maybe some nonfiction.

So I think there's just ways that you deal with it.

John: The most recent book hangover I had, not to go back to a subject that's going to be a frequent topic over. the next eight months, was after reading Hank's book, An Absolutely Remarkable Thing. I really did, though. And I hadn't had the feeling that intensely in a long time where I Love those characters and I wanted to spend more time with them and I loved how they loved each other. I loved the way they cared about each other and that reflected both things that I have in my real life and also things that I Had at other points in my real life that I miss having. you know that feeling of being remember when when we were in our 20s and In Chicago and we had these wonderful wonderful friend groups and we remember the best summer ever when Sam and Shannon announced that it was going to be the best summer ever and we were always grilling out and the weather was always perfect and we were we just loved living on Gidding Street and the bookseller had opened up and so we had a local bookstore we could walk to and a great bar and we felt comfortable enough in our own skins finally at the end of our 20s to have this magical summer. together. that's the way an absolutely remarkable thing made me feel I cannot wait to read it.

Sarah: I am so excited to read it and I cannot wait to have my Hank Green book hangover very soon.

John: Yeah, absolutely. Which reminds me that today's podcast is brought to you by Hank Green's new book, An Absolutely Remarkable Thing, available in September in bookstores everywhere.

Sarah: It's also brought to you by Mark Spitz, former Olympic swimmer. How did you get to Mark Spitz?

John: Take me there. Do you have a life-size cutout of Mark Spitz that you've been hiding from me this whole time? 

Sarah: No, I don't know how I got there, but I once looked for Mark Spitz posters on eBay. Are you into Mark Spitz?

John: I don't think so.

Sarah: I really don't know how I got there. You know I like to look for weird stuff on eBay.

John: Yeah, no, that's why eBay exists. There's a Mountain Goats lyric trying to fight the sense of dread with temporal things.

Sarah: Yeah.

John: That's my description of what eBay feels like. Okay. Which reminds me that today's podcast is also brought to you by eBay. eBay, trying to fight the sense of. dread with temporal things.

Sarah: And lastly, this podcast is brought to you by Ben's Day at Work. Don't ask about it.

John: No, don't ask about Ben's day. It wasn't great.

Sarah: Okay, but back to our questions. This next one comes from Kelly. I've never been into politics much until the past year and a half. I know if I want things to change, I need to get involved.

And the quote, easiest first step would be calling my senators and representatives to voice my concerns. Why is this so daunting? I'm 30 years old for goodness sake.

I know they are just humans like I am, but for some reason I get such anxiety thinking about calling. I could send an email, but I've heard that politicians pay more attention to phone calls. Political advice for introverts?

John: Kelly. This is something I also struggle with.

Sarah: Both John and I really dislike actually calling people and if I could give anyone some advice for looking for their life partner, one of you should feel comfortable calling strangers.

John: Two things, I think it's good to have at least one spender and at least one saver.

Sarah: We're both spenders. And neither of us. like to call people.

John: I disagree. I don't think we're both spenders.

Sarah: Oh, really? I don't. You think you're not a spender?

John: No. When I look at the secret room bookcase, every time I look at it, I think to myself, this was the action of a saver. This is the kind of thing only a saver would have purchased.

Sarah: But who had the wherewithal and the contacts to get this bookcase made and paid for?

John: Oh, definitely you. Definitely you. I think you actually made the relevant phone calls. Neither of us is particularly good at calling.

I would say if you want to have a job, if you want to have job security for the rest of your life, be the kind of person who's good at calling strangers. It's such a great life skill, but we don't have it and neither does Kelly. So here's my advice, Kelly.

You just got to work yourself up and then what I like to do with difficult things is break them into tiny little constituent parts. So I go to fivecalls.org, I look at the script, I read through everything, I see who I'm going to call, I look at. the number, I think about dialing the number, I dial the number, I wait for a while before hitting call just to psych myself up, remind myself of the stuff I want to say, then I hit call. Eight times out of ten I end up with a voicemail message which is perfect.

So that's one of the nice things especially if you call during a busy time. you're probably just gonna get a voicemail which is so easy to do and then I just do my best to say it. I always stumble over my words and then and then I just hang up as quickly as possible and then I reward myself. I get I tell myself okay you have five minutes to do whatever you want. you can eat candy you can go on reddit you can do anything that will bring you pleasure and then we're gonna make one more call and then you're done for the week.

Sarah: wait but can we back up a little bit here? because i i feel I feel like it's okay to not call your representatives. There are other things you can do to be an active member in this. democracy. You can vote. That's the most important thing.

I really feel like if you're paying attention to the news and the issues and the people who are running for positions in your area, then you're doing a hell of a lot of work already and you're doing a good job.

John: I agree. The most important thing you can do is vote. The second most important thing you can probably do is register other people to vote.

Sarah: Here we go.

John: Help organize to get other people to vote.

Sarah: Do you remember when we went door to door to encourage people to register to vote, John?

John: I do. This is relevant. I do.

Sarah: I feel that this is relevant. It's something that neither of us really wanted to do but we felt that we should.

John: Right.

Sarah: and we did. and we went door to door in a neighborhood and we'd go to the door we'd knock or ring the bell and then we kind of agree in those few moments. okay are you going first for this one or am I and I remember the first time it was gonna be John's turn John was like okay it's good it's good. it's gonna be me this time. woman opens the door Pause, pause, pause. John's not saying anything. I kind of was like, okay, John, now's your chance. And then I, I, I swept in there. 

John: I would have stood silent in front of that person for seven years if you hadn't begun to talk. I was already, they tell you what to say. You say your name and then you state your purpose.

Sarah: Yeah, and I felt very comfortable. just not telling somebody how they should vote, but just giving them the opportunity to register.

John: Just a quick update on. you might hear some noise outside. It's a buddy of ours who works at the local restaurant. He's very excited about seeing one of his friends. So that's a personal update in case you can hear that.

They also appear to maybe be setting off some firecrackers. They're so excited to be seeing each other anyway. But back to political activism.

Sarah: Right. And there's there's other things you can do besides going to register people to vote or calling your representative. You can do something like make a really cool poster that advertises your particular issues of concern.

John: Yeah.

Sarah: There. are other things to do besides calling.

John: I completely agree. You don't have to call. But It is one way of trying to move the needle a little bit especially in between elections. I think a lot of us feel kind of powerless in between elections. but the most important thing that we can do is vote in 2018 and make sure that we're registered to vote in 2018. so if you're not registered to vote or if you're not sure that you're registered to vote get registered right now.

I don't mean like get in a car accident by pulling out your phone but like I mean pull over right now get yourself to a safe space and register to vote. it is so important if we had 100% or even 80% voter turnout. I think that we would like American governance a lot more and so I really encourage you to make your voice heard and to register to vote and to vote in November. Alright, this next question comes from Wenny who asks, Dear John and Hank, what should I do with a guy who thinks reading novels is useless and lame and won't get me anywhere?

Furiously, Wenny, dump him.

Sarah: Dump him fast. Yeah.

John: Farewell, sweet prince. Next question. 

Sarah: Yep.

John: I'm not, I mean.

Sarah: That's it. That's really all, that's really all you can say. Look, especially if Wenny clearly likes to read.

John: Yeah.

Sarah: So if he can't, if he can't appreciate your desire to read fiction, then it's just not going to work.

John: Here's my issue with the question. It's when Wenny asks, what should I do with a guy who thinks reading novels is useless and lame? Look, that's fine. it I think it's wrong but it's fine but the end won't get me anywhere.

Sarah: no no no I don't even think that that part is fine. I think that it's fine to not read fiction yourself. yes but I don't think it's okay to impose that on other people.

John: exactly that's that's. yes it's fine right live your life but don't tell other people how to live their reading lives. for the love of God you know who read fiction James Joyce You know who read fiction? Toni Morrison. Come on!

Sarah: I also think, like, name all of the things in the world that might be useless and lame. There are so many. more things that can be construed as useless than reading. Or what do we do that isn't useless? Because we're all going to end up in the same place.

John: Right. Yeah. Like, you know what won't get you anywhere? Spending your whole life telling other people that their reading choices are useless and lame.

That's not going to get you anywhere in the long run. Winnie, I think it's time to walk the F away.

Sarah: Okay, our next question comes from Phoebe. Dear Hank and John, I am friends with a guy, I am a girl, who I went to a dance with last weekend. We attended as friends, but in the midst of school dance insanity, we ended up slow dancing. I like him and I think he likes me, so my question is, how do two people proceed after accidentally slow dancing with each other?

Not friends with Chandler and Rachel, Phoebe.

John: Phoebe, this is awesome. This is the opposite of Winnie's question. 

Sarah: Where's Monica? She must be friends with Monica.

John: Maybe she is friends with Monica. Alternately, maybe judging by what I'm guessing is Phoebe's age, she's not that familiar with friends.

Sarah: Or also Joey's missing.

John: Okay, if we're gonna say that Joey's missing, Sarah, then we might as well get into the endless cast of fourth-rate Friends characters.

Sarah: Joey is a very prominent core member of the Friends group.

John: Sarah, everyone knows that that television show Friends is about a group of five very close friends and the sixth person who is Joey, who is a, like, not central character in any of their lives.

Sarah: No, he's a huge character.

John: Strongly disagree.

Sarah: Okay, anyway, let's get back to the question here, which is, which is a wonderful, wonderful question. How do you proceed? 

John: it's a beautiful time in retrospect like when you're inside of it. it's kind of an anxious time right that's true but it is a beautiful time. looking back on it for sure. yeah here's my favorite part of the question. Sarah is in the midst of school dance insanity. we ended up slow dancing here. here's my take Phoebe. I don't think that you ended up slow dancing because you know the school dance insanity overtook both of you and you just were feeling the vibe of it all. and you are. you just suddenly found yourself slow dancing. I strongly think. that if you really examine your motives you're gonna find that you ended up slow dancing because you both wanted to be slow dancing and that means that you know that's a step on a path. maybe or maybe not it's up to you. but I think you just keep walking that path and maybe say maybe you know what you could say just gonna throw this out there. you could say Ross.

I assume that's his name. I really enjoyed slow dancing with you. At first I thought it was only because of the school dance insanity that we ended up slow dancing together, but the more I think about it, the more I think like, I liked slow dancing with you.

I thought it was fun. What do you think of that? Is that too far?

Sarah: It might be too far. I don't know. I don't know. She doesn't seem like she's dying to know what he thinks.

So... I think she's in a good place because she's just kind of towing the line and I believe in protecting one's own interests here like if it works out great and if it doesn't, NBD.

John: That is a true. blue. Sarah Green answer. That reveals something deep about your character I think and it is very true. Why?

Like at what point in our romantic relationship do you think that you thought to yourself If we break up, this is now going to be a big deal.

Sarah: It was pretty soon after we got together.

John: I was going to ask you if it was before or after we got engaged.

Sarah: It was definitely before. Come on, give me credit. Like a month before? Yeah.

John: Because I would say the moment I realized that our breaking up would be a huge deal to me was like maybe three months before we started dating.

Sarah: Before? Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

John: I was like, I don't know if I want to start this whole process because it would be devastating if we broke up. Because I liked you so much. Because like we got along so well as friends and we had these wonderful email conversations.

Sarah: Right.

John: And then I remember you came to a party at my house and at the end of that party, I was like, oh, we're going to have to make a decision about this.

Sarah: Yeah. We or you?

John: Both of us. 

Sarah: Right. Because we clearly liked each other. Yeah. Yeah.

John: At least some. Right. But I don't know that we really understood what it was. Right.

We were in a similar situation, really, to the situation Phoebe's in. That's true. And I did enjoy, I enjoyed that process.

Like we had great witty repartee before we started. dating.

Sarah: We did, but the other thing to note since they're pretty young is that it's all about whether you guys get along and whether you have good chemistry, but it's also of course about timing. So maybe it is your time with this guy and maybe you need to date a few other people first. before before this guy for real.

John: so who knows that said we have lots of friends who started dating in eighth grade and are still together. no we don't. we have one. well two because they're a couple.

Sarah: okay one that seems like an exception to the to the rule. no it is possible. it is possible.

John: i was i was gonna. i was gonna try to imagine what life would have been like if i'd married my eighth grade girlfriend. yeah but then of. course i realized that i did not have one. It was a tough year. It was a tough year.

Sarah: Anyway, Phoebe, I think congratulations that you have a special relationship with another person whom you like and that may lead to something romantic and may not.

John: Oh, that's great advice Sarah. That's lovely. Okay Sarah, it's time to get to the all important news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon. Would you like to go first?

I assume that you have some extremely carefully prepared Mars news?

Sarah: Yeah, I'm a little worried about this delivery here since I don't have a very deep knowledge of Mars. But I will tell you what I've learned through my extensive research. And that's that NASA's next mission to Mars passed a key test in the past week in extending the solar array that will power the InSight spacecraft once it lands on the red planet this November. I wasn't just reading that from my phone, I swear.

John: It didn't sound like you were. No, no.

Sarah: So anyway, it seems like they've been doing a lot of tests, but now they're really, it's getting closer to the time and they're sort of going through the. motions of the things that won't happen again till this thing actually gets to Mars.

John: Wow. So my understanding of this is that We are in a period where NASA is attempting to essentially land a much nicer Mini Cooper on Mars than the Mini Cooper that we landed named Curiosity a few years ago and that is very exciting but critically It will not have any humans on it, which leaves open the possibility that this podcast will change its name in 2028. Right.

Sarah: Well, I will say, looking at the fan-like solar panels that are part of this, they're very beautiful.

John: Does it look like a peacock?

Sarah: It's very well designed, I will say.

John: Can I take a look?

Sarah: I think it's kind of gorgeous.

John: It is beautiful. That is really pretty.

Sarah: Sort of like a flower.

John: Yeah. Well, the news from AFC Wimbledon is also beautiful and wonderful. and amazing. As Sarah knows because she was there as I was celebrating. AFC Wimbledon beat Blackpool 2-0 on January 20th.

This was a huge win on the heels of their 0-0 draw against the franchise currently plying its trade in Milton Keynes. AFC Wimbledon won 2-0 with goals. from Liam Trotter and Joe Pigott. Sarah have you heard that name before?

You haven't. No. You know why?

Sarah: Because he's new.

John: He's brand new. We just signed him. It was his first game and with his second touch of the ball as an AFC Wimbledon player, he scored. He's new and I don't want to get ahead of myself.

But he's amazing. He's 24 years old. No pressure.

We signed him from Maidstone United, a team in the fifth tier of English football. I don't want to put too much pressure on him this early. How old is he?

He's 24. Okay. I don't want to put too much pressure on him this early in his AFC Wimbledon career, but I have started calling him the Maidstonian Messi because I think he is going to be the greatest football player in England's history.

Very exciting, we scored two goals which does not happen very often and we didn't give up any which is even better. and that means that for the first time in a long long time for the first time in many many weeks AFC Wimbledon are no longer in the bottom four places in League 1. We are out of the relegation zone. We are all the way up in 19th.

I mean, can you even breathe the air up here? It's so deoxygenated. We have 31 points.

After 27 games, a negative 7 goal differential, better goal differential than any of the teams around us, sitting comfortably, joyfully in 19th. And Sarah, what if I told you that the news gets even better still?

Sarah: I wouldn't believe you. How could it be true?

John: But it's true, because while we are in 19th, guess who we have pushed down into 21st place? A relegation spot.

Sarah: The worst team of all time.

John: Literally. the worst team of all time. The franchise currently playing its trade in Milton Keynes. Now of course if they get relegated they can just steal a league spot from a team in the third tier like they did back in 2002. so it won't be a problem for them of course. but it is I have to say a little pleasant to see a team that still insists on calling themselves the Dons despite having absolutely no association with Wimbledon at all in any way in the relegation spots if somehow AFC Wimbledon. end up staying up that other team ends up going down. that would mean not having to play them next season which would also be lovely. so yeah let's keep our Let's keep our hopes alive.

Sarah: May I ask a question? You may. So how far, not to get too ambitious here, but how far out of the relegation zone does one have to be before one doesn't worry about entering the relegation zone?

John: Great question. Uh, 52 points. Okay. If we get to 52 points, we're not going to get relegated and until, probably, and until we get to 52 points, I'm going to worry.

Sarah: And how many points do we have?

John: 31. Okay, so there's work to do. We have 19 games left. So we need from those 19 games, we need about 21 points.

Sarah: Okay.

John: It should be doable with Joe Pigott. Forget about that, Sarah. Let me answer your question with a question. Is it possible that AFC Wimbledon will be promoted to the second tier of English football.

Is it possible that on the back of Joe Pigott we will rise from 21st all the way up to sixth place?

Sarah: Shouldn't we suspend that hope? a little later in the season?

John: Winning the playoff semi-final and then going to Wembley again, flying out to Wembley with my son and my father and my spouse? Maybe? Maybe? And enjoying the greatest comeback in the history of football?

It's possible, Sarah. It's possible. Through Joe Pigott, so many things are possible.

Sarah: Do you have any sort of song for Joe Pigott? Yeah.

John: I've been thinking about trying to develop one. I tried to buy him in my FIFA game, but he isn't in the game because he plays in a tier that's too low. Yeah, I've been thinking about a good Joe Pigott song. If you have any suggestions, actually, let us know on Twitter or on the Patreon at patreon.com. slash Dear Hank and John.

I know that the AFC Wimbledon fans are going to need a great Joe Pigott song to go along with their classic Lyle Taylor Baby. Sarah, thank you for potting with me.

Sarah: Thank you for asking me to pod with you, John.

John: It's been a pleasure and I really appreciate you doing it. And thanks to all of you for listening. Again, you can find out more about our podcast at. the Patreon, patreon.com. slash Dear Hank and John. You can find out more about Sarah at The Art Assignment.

You can just Google it. They have a website.

Sarah: It's theartassignment.com.

John: Oh, that was a good one. You picked a good URL. I wish JohnGreen.com was available, but that realtor in southern Mississippi has sure had it for a long time. Our podcast is produced by Rosianna Halse Rojas and Sheridan Gibson.

It's edited by the brilliant Nick Jenkins. Our head of community and communications is Victoria Bongiorno. The theme music you're listening to right now was made by Gunnarolla.

Thank you again for listening, and as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.